(March 11, 2015 at 6:34 pm)Godschild Wrote: If we do not help those in need, the poor, the hungry, the starving, the thirsty, the diseased and ect. yes we are guilty. Man is responsible for what happens on this planet, we are to help others. I know you do not care about Christian charity and help, but it's important work that has little pay and little gratitude except for those who are receiving the aide. But none the matter, it's being done on a world wide scale that would blow most peoples mind. So yes you are guilty if you are setting on your hands and doing nothing.

GC

Hey GC, your deadbeat god/creator will still torture me for doing good works with not believing in it, right?

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(March 11, 2015 at 2:42 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 7:15 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: breaking His commandments is.
People do not love their neighbors as themselves. I seriously doubt any of you are poor, and I bet most of you are incredibly wealthy, at least compared to the truly poor of this world. The following applies to you.

God doesn't starve children; people starve children. People in first world countries don't give; they withhold. How many children could any of you have saved from starvation or dehydration or disease, yet they died anyway because you'd rather spend money on your damned selves and your entertainment instead of them?

You all dare lecture me on morality? You hypocrites, take a look in the mirror!

There is nothing you could ever say or do to wash the blood from your hands; only our Lord and Savior is capable of doing that. Claim some moral high ground when you've actually earned the right...until then, perhaps you should shut your mouths.

Miles I've tried to share this very thing with them on numerous occasions, saying to them God created us to take care of the less fortunate. If we do not it's our fault not God's. God created the means to help those who are starving and thirsty, dying of diseases and other things, they are given into our hands to help, to show our compassion, to minister and give our love to, just as the scriptures teach. Most here just ignore it, just like they did with you. They either feel the conviction of their failure or they do not care and want God to do the work they were made for, caring for their fellow man.

Wait for it ..... now the complaining and sad stories start.

GC

Come on GC, PARODY.

It's a big word, I know, but you need to understand the context. When someone who doesn't believe in your god says 'well why doesn't god do x or y', you need to immediately stop thinking that they are addressing said god directly through you as a proxy.

What they are in fact doing is pointing out the logical contradictions in your beliefs/ideas by using the very basis of those beliefs/ideas against you.

So when you say, for example, 'god is the ultimate good', and then someone in response says 'but what about all the natural disasters [or whatever] that cause the loss of innocent lives', this is not a response that legitimises the belief in that god. They are not saying 'well why can't god just do this and everything will be ok?' with the expectation that god will actually do this. They are highlighting the contradiction in your thinking.

Is this something you've ever understood on your years being on here? That when we invoke your (belief) in your god, we are not actually criticising god (which doesn't exist), but you as a believer?

I've highlighted the only thing I've ever seen you write on this forum that I agree with. As you know, my usual MO is start with whatever you've said and believe the exact opposite, because 99% of the time you're wrong. This time it was the 1%, and it made me cry, and want to tell a sad story.

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(March 11, 2015 at 6:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: I chose the needy because that's what I've been trying to get across for sometime now. I was letting him know that helping those in need isn't for most of the atheist here.

Whatever you need to keep telling yourself to give you the illusion of poverty based superiority.

(March 12, 2015 at 6:13 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(March 11, 2015 at 6:34 pm)Godschild Wrote: If we do not help those in need, the poor, the hungry, the starving, the thirsty, the diseased and ect. yes we are guilty. Man is responsible for what happens on this planet, we are to help others. I know you do not care about Christian charity and help, but it's important work that has little pay and little gratitude except for those who are receiving the aide. But none the matter, it's being done on a world wide scale that would blow most peoples mind. So yes you are guilty if you are setting on your hands and doing nothing.

GC

Hey GC, your deadbeat god/creator will still torture me for doing good works with not believing in it, right?

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True GC?

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There is too much here for me to address in a single post. I simply don't have that much time on my hands, but there are a few things I'd like to address.

First, I didn't mention charitable giving to condemn, but to illustrate a point. It doesn't matter how much of your income you give, or how much time you spend helping others, because you will always fall short. Do you spend even $10 to go and see a movie? Do you realize how much in food, water, or medical supplies that much money can provide to someone in the third world?

If you loved your neighbor as yourself, you would have to take the food out of your mouth and give it to them. In fact, you yourself would have to starve before they ever did, if it was within your power. That is God's standard, the example set by Jesus Christ. You have to love your neighbor enough to die for them, to suffer excruciating pain and agony for them. That is what Jesus Christ did for us all, and it is a standard no one is capable of meeting on their own.

Nevertheless, we have all been guilty of not giving enough for our neighbor; we are all guilty of starving children and letting them die of dehydration and disease. That was why I mentioned it - you can't judge God for using the methods of justice He does when you ALL fall FAR short of His standards.

You can whine about His methods all you like, and call them cruel and unnecessary, but how do you know what is necessary? Who are you to question God, to claim to know or have a better way of doing things? If the purpose of our existence on Earth is to learn the difference between good and evil, and God put that purpose in motion, you can rest assured that there is no better way. Being made into the image of God is not an easy thing to accomplish.

Someone mentioned the following:

What the hell happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged."?

That is a line used by those who simply do not know what they are talking about. The full context must be used:

Matthew 7:1-3
Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Here, Jesus was telling us that we shouldn't judge people by the things of which we ourselves are guilty. It is clear by this subsequent line that once we have repented of our sins, then we can "remove the speck."

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the speck out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

What the Bible does tell us is to not judge by the appearance:

John 7:24
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.

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I should also mention, since someone is likely to accuse me of not abiding by the standard outlined in the above Scripture, that the only way to not be guilty of starving children by your own greed is to recognize the sovereignty of God. If you don't believe that all those who suffer from famine, drought and disease do so according to His will, then you believe there is something you can and should do about it, therefore you condemn yourself by your own thoughts and lack of action.

However, one can only acknowledge His sovereignty by His grace, and not by one's own power.

(March 12, 2015 at 11:35 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: ... you can't judge God for using the methods of justice He does when you ALL fall FAR short of His standards.

So your god has no more power or ability than a random human. A tad short of omnipotent I would think.

yes...I would think so too, in fact I DO think. But then again, I'm not a Christian, I'm still capable of it.

There's more power in my little finger than Yahweh has. See, I can cause an effect with my little finger.

Never had any complaints anyway :p

(March 12, 2015 at 11:35 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: If you loved your neighbor as yourself, you would have to take the food out of your mouth and give it to them. In fact, you yourself would have to starve before they ever did, if it was within your power. That is God's standard, the example set by Jesus Christ.

So, Jesus died of starvation, then? Oh, no, wait, he didn't.

Quote:You have to love your neighbor enough to die for them, to suffer excruciating pain and agony for them. That is what Jesus Christ did for us all, and it is a standard no one is capable of meeting on their own.

Psychotics have been known to hurt themselves for a variety of reasons....

Quote:Nevertheless, we have all been guilty of not giving enough for our neighbor; we are all guilty of starving children and letting them die of dehydration and disease. That was why I mentioned it - you can't judge God for using the methods of justice He does when you ALL fall FAR short of His standards.

Sure I can. I don't need to be a chef to complain when I get food poisoning. I don't need to be a parent to give criticism when a parent abuses their children. I don't need to be a musician to know Nickelback sucks, objectively.

Quote:You can whine about His methods all you like, and call them cruel and unnecessary, but how do you know what is necessary? Who are you to question God, to claim to know or have a better way of doing things?

I'm someone who sees a system that's needlessly wasteful, which calls into doubt the presence of a perfect being. It's criminally wasteful to send an unknown number of souls to hell for an eternity simply because they were born in the wrong place, or because they didn't make a leap of faith. Eternal punishment for a finite 'crime', one logically committed because of a complete lack of verifiable evidence for god's existence, is straight bullshit.

This is the same being that cursed an entire species for the actions of a couple, even though they had no idea of the concept of punishment because god neglected to spell it out for them. He also left the Fruit right where they could get it. It's like leaving a knife in reach of a toddler, then violently punishing the toddler (and all of his progeny) for playing with it.

I program for a living. If god sent me his resume, I certainly wouldn't hire him. He's the kind of guy who would nuke a DB table on purpose.

Quote:If the purpose of our existence on Earth is to learn the difference between good and evil, and God put that purpose in motion, you can rest assured that there is no better way. Being made into the image of God is not an easy thing to accomplish.

If our purpose is to learn the difference between good and evil? You don't sound convinced there, champ. Moreover, why would that be the purpose of this life? Think about it: the ultimate reward for those that live according to your god's whims is eternal paradise, a state of being where the skills learned in this life are completely unnecessary. Can you not see how ridiculous that is? It's not as though the things here are to prepare us for heaven. There, there's no wants or needs. No disease. No poverty. How we act here really has no bearing on how we'd act under those conditions.

Unless, of course, the bible is wrong about what waits for us after death....

Beyond that, you're just spouting off the "mysterious ways" BS that is so tiring. "You can't know because god has his own reasons, blah blah blah." The only thing we have that says he's right is the bible, which is circular logic. God is right because the bible says he is. Whee!

(March 12, 2015 at 11:35 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: That was why I mentioned it - you can't judge God for using the methods of justice He does when you ALL fall FAR short of His standards.

True. I'm neither serial killer nor rapist. I'm sure that makes me wanting in your god's eyes.

Quote:Who are you to question God, to claim to know or have a better way of doing things?

This seems like a marvelous way to prevent anyone from asking any questions ever.

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(March 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm)abaris Wrote:

(March 12, 2015 at 11:35 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: That was why I mentioned it - you can't judge God for using the methods of justice He does when you ALL fall FAR short of His standards.

True. I'm neither serial killer nor rapist. I'm sure that makes me wanting in your god's eyes.

Have you drowned any pregnant women or the elderly? That would make you more godlike.