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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 9:37 am
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2015 at 9:40 am by Alex K.)
(March 17, 2015 at 8:57 am)JuliaL Wrote: 'Zactly.
Absolutely nothing means absolutely nothing. It does not include a universe creating potential in an omnipotent being.
I'm not a fan of the quantum fluctuation supposedly responsible for the origin of the universe "coming from nothing." This is inferred from models which are extrapolated beyond a point at which they lose predictive powers. Also 'Zactly. I'd go even further and say that we extrapolate the usage of words beyond the point where they still have any meaning 
Not a fan of philosophical interpretations a la Krauss.
Quote: Before that (causally, but not temporally as it was from this event that time itself emerged) the laws we've discovered by observation of existing consistencies may not hold.
So conditions predicted by such laws also lose legitimacy.
Yup. "Before time"=nonsense
Quote:I find it quite plausible that the event which caused the universe involved a dimension into which we cannot look.
It's a very popular speculation in superstring theory which has been worked out in considerable detail that inflation and the bang were driven by the dynamics of lower-dimensional branes (on one of which we live) in a 10-dimensional space. Their mutual energy depends on their distance in the higher dimensions, and them coming together frees some of it, roughly speaking.
Quote: If a two dimensional puddle receives a raindrop falling from a 3d sky, the impact just happens from the viewpoint of the flatlanders on the surface of the puddle.
Yes, roughly like that. The only things that see in those other dimensions are gravity related forces. If the distance in the higher dimensions is largeish, this does not have much impact on gravity as we see it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 12:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2015 at 12:44 pm by robvalue.)
Aesthetic onion signs hairs know antler.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Lmao...^THIS^!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 1:13 pm
(March 17, 2015 at 12:44 pm)robvalue Wrote: Aesthetic onion signs hairs know antler.
If you say so, rob...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 1:56 pm
 It's been a long day.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 5:37 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2015 at 5:38 pm by Pizza.)
Isn't Krauss's point that there are things within the universe that are uncaused as far as we know(ex. virtual particles)? This would greatly undercut the family of cosmological arguments.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 7:07 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2015 at 7:19 pm by JuliaL.)
(March 17, 2015 at 9:37 am)Alex K Wrote: Quote:I find it quite plausible that the event which caused the universe involved a dimension into which we cannot look.
It's a very popular speculation in superstring theory which has been worked out in considerable detail that inflation and the bang were driven by the dynamics of lower-dimensional branes (on one of which we live) in a 10-dimensional space. Their mutual energy depends on their distance in the higher dimensions, and them coming together frees some of it, roughly speaking.
Quote: If a two dimensional puddle receives a raindrop falling from a 3d sky, the impact just happens from the viewpoint of the flatlanders on the surface of the puddle.
Yes, roughly like that. The only things that see in those other dimensions are gravity related forces. If the distance in the higher dimensions is largeish, this does not have much impact on gravity as we see it. Superstring or silly string, dunno, I lack the math ability to understand and can't really criticize them so I watch and applaud. My understanding of the popularizations of cosmologist theories includes a number of statements pointing out that their models are currently untestable hence unfalsifiable. That's the limit of observation I'm talking about. The universe just keeps getting bigger by orders of magnitude. I'm good with there being 10 dimensions...I'm just not sure how we'd show that there are only 10, not just 10 we can detect (or are convenient to assume) at the moment.
(March 17, 2015 at 5:37 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: Isn't Krauss's point that there are things within the universe that are uncaused as far as we know(ex. virtual particles)? This would greatly undercut the family of cosmological arguments. I'd say there is a really big difference between
uncaused and
uncaused as far as we know.
ex-nihilo would be uncaused full stop.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 17, 2015 at 8:47 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2015 at 8:51 pm by Pizza.)
No I'm not talking about ex-nihilo, I'm talking about a cause with no cause before it. Christians keep confusing these two things.
If something is uncaused as far as we know, then we have warrant to provisionally believe that it is uncaused until proved otherwise.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 19, 2015 at 1:16 am
(March 17, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: No I'm not talking about ex-nihilo, I'm talking about a cause with no cause before it. Christians keep confusing these two things.
If something is uncaused as far as we know, then we have warrant to provisionally believe that it is uncaused until proved otherwise. Space and time are not eternal, they came into being by an act of God; a Being that's transcendent to or outside of space and time doesn't require a beginning. 'Beginning' are only required in connection with the cosmic timeline which can be depicted as a series of cause and effect transactions.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
March 19, 2015 at 1:24 am
I didn't say it was eternal.
The universe exists outside the itself. Therefore it is outside of space and time doesn't require a beginning.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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