(March 23, 2015 at 1:46 pm)professor Wrote: In your above post, what was omitted is the Justice of God.
Islam focuses on the mercy of God but forgets that He is perfectly just, therefore what Islam presents is false.
Justice is included in the Quran numerous of times :
( 90 ) Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
But the justice of god, cannot be treated as a separate entity, we must also include his mercy and all of his 99 adjectives with it ; too. Then we have a complete "godly" action.
Quote:Perfect justice DEMANDS a price to be paid. NOT over looked.
You can not pay it.
No one but God could pay it. Each if us have our own load of guilt that we can't pay.
We might contradict each other here. God acts as a one, unified entity, thus as I mentioned above, the perfect justice is supported by other perfect adjectives & actions.
Thus, the concept of forgiveness, being a perfect adjective of god in Islam, also plays a big role in the mixture. Overlooking the bad, cannot take place when the good is being overlooked too in a perfect justice. A perfect justice acknowledges weakness, mistakes & perfect forgiveness is understanding the excuse.
Quote:We all stand guilty before the Judge, and the Judge predetermined, before time began, to take the hit we deserve.
We can say, "Bullshit" and take the hit ourselves, in our pride and rebellion OR take the pardon God offers.
I agree, professor.
( 68 ) So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.
( 69 ) Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.
( 70 ) Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.
( 71 ) And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.
( 72 ) Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
But not Christ..God ..god is whom would save us from it, not the acceptance of christ. God is understanding, loving him & fearing him is what would save us.
Quote:Those are the terms of Perfect Justice.
There are no other terms.
Every one of Satan's false religious systems are based on some performance standard, mixed in with hocus -pocus.
Because he KNOWS our goodness is as menstruating rags to God and will be rejected.
True. But we disagree on the terms yet again..I know that your terms is the acceptance of christ's crucification.
Quote:It is God who made us 3 in One- just as He is.
Do you not have a mind?
Is your mind your body?
Mind and body are not the same thing, yet they are you.
You are one person.
Your mind directs your hand, just as Father God directs His Word Jesus- the manifestation of God.
I understand the Christian faith more, Professor, thank you so much for answering me.
(March 23, 2015 at 2:44 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Perfect justice demands that a price be paid, but it would also demand a limit on that price. Since you can't commit crimes eternally on this earth, it is unjust to punish someone for eternity. Some christians like to act as if it's eternal punishment, or no punishment, which is a strawman argument.
There is huge controversy until this day between Muslims, either hell is eternal or not..
I honestly believe it's not, because of this verse :
( 11 ) They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"
( 12 ) [They will be told], "That is because, when Allah was called upon alone, you disbelieved; but if others were associated with Him, you believed. So the judgement is with Allah, the Most High, the Grand."
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
What is the second death ? probably people were never meant to spent eternity in hell, unlike heaven, which the Quran stated clearly that people would be in it "forever". Hell was never described in the same fashion.
but as the verse said, which matches professor's answer : the judgement is to god, only god knows..
Personally, this verse makes me doubt the eternal concept we always hear about.
(March 23, 2015 at 3:53 pm)JuliaL Wrote: I've never seen a full and complete definition of "pure."
All the theists supply are examples. To call it "Godlike" replaces one unknown with another.
Without that, arguments on greater or lesser purity are empty.
If a perfect God had a son, why would that not be a pure action?
If God is perfect, so are His actions-all of them.
Or is there a standard of purity outside of God that He must follow?
Atlas, your god produced an imperfect creation, one which could be corrupted.
Why not a son?
When I think about it, if something is to be pure, it gotta be one of a kind as a first feature, secondly it must be something eternal & infinite, then comes many features which I believe are the 99 adjectives in Islam. That's my definition for pure.
Giving birth means that the first rule was broken ; only to get followed by the second rule being broken too : birth = a race that dies.
So in my mindset, if god had a son, then god just showed he is neither unique nor eternal ; hence if his son died, it's even more of a proof that god can actually go extinct..
It wasn't imperfect creation, julia. Humans are beautiful, it's the free that we have, the choice in life which we can take. Represented more clearly in the tale of Adam & Eve, and how they listened to satan instead of god.
Humans get corrupted by their own acts, they choose to get corrupted. Nobody forced Hitler to invade the world, nobody too forced stalin to massacre the millions he killed, humans do that by their own free will..
I thought you'll be interested in this. I know you see it as a fairy tale, but it's how awesome we are, yet by our own free will, we choose to commit evil. Thus, we corrupt ourselves. The angels of heaven, bowed to us once.. that gotta mean something.
( 11 ) And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
( 12 ) [Allah] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."
( 13 ) [Allah] said, "Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.
( 14 ) [Satan] said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."
( 15 ) [Allah] said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."
( 16 ) [Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.
( 17 ) Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."
( 18 ) [Allah] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."
( 19 ) And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
( 20 ) But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
