(April 3, 2015 at 3:53 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: The situation is similar because many people who practice BDSM consider it part of their sexual identity. In the same way that someone can self-identify as a gay man, someone else can self-identify as a dominant female. Stepping back from the cafe example, I want to know specifically, yes or no, if a halal caterer can be forced to serve as a collaring/wedding ceremony of a BDSM couple.

Sure it is ridiculous,...now.

What the fuck kind of fantasies are going on in your head?

How many times do we have to say this? You can turn away an insufficiently-dressed customer on the basis of the dress code.

And what the hell does halal have to do with BDSM? And what the hell does BDSM have to do with sexual orientation?

Seriously dude, your inability to acknowledge simple points and your ludicrous and irrelevant examples smack of either mind-boggling ignorance or being willfully obtuse.

(April 3, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Mezmo! Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:28 am)Desert Diva Wrote: To me the answer is very simple.  If you can't do business in a fair and welcoming way with everyone and in accordance with the laws and expectations of your society, you shouldn't be in business. 

So now free enterprise is set aside so as to make businesses instruments of government social engineering. "You will be made to care!"

Suppose a dominatrix with slave in tow asks a halal caterer to serve at their collaring ceremony/wedding. Does anyone here think that the government should force the halal caterer to do so even though he/she disapproves of BDSM relationships?

Hey, I'm not the one that told Christians they can't serve both their god and mammon, their rule book did.  And fuck yeah, I want you to follow the rules of a civilized society, or take the first plane out to the libertarian paradise of Somolia, and live your dream life.  Put your feet where your mouth is.

(April 3, 2015 at 3:56 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You can turn away an insufficiently-dressed customer on the basis of the dress code.  


And what the hell does halal have to do with BDSM?  And what the hell does BDSM have to do with sexual orientation?...

The categories of gender identity are social constructs that could easily be expanded to include fringe elements of sexual preference, just add hyphen. gay-male, transgender-female,...dominant-male, submissive-woman... At some point, if it hasn't already happened, someone will say he/she didn't choose to be a dominant or submissive. They will claim that they were born that way. Then they will have a bizzare wedding ceremony that would offend the sensibilities of any devout Muslim, i.e. the caterer. The real question is this: where is the line that limits the ability of the government to intrude into our private lives, private businesses, and private purchases.

You have some really bizarre fever dream paranoid fantasies there, Mezmo.

(April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am)A Theist Wrote:

(April 2, 2015 at 4:23 am)Norman Humann Wrote: .......And what compromise do you suggest?......

The pizza shop owner indicated that she didn't have a problem with gays coming into her business and ordering pizza. However, she would have a problem catering a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs. The compromise: allow her business to continue serving gays and the rest of the public in her establishment, but not forcing her and other business owners of faith to accommodate gay weddings and anything else associated to gay marriage, which would be contrary to their religious beliefs.

Let me explain why that's a really bad idea.

The pizza shop owner indicated that she didn't have a problem with interracial couples coming into her business and ordering pizza. However, she would have a problem catering an interracial couple wedding because of her religious beliefs. The compromise: allow her business to continue serving interracial couples and the rest of the public in her establishment, but not forcing her and other business owners of faith to accommodate interracial couple weddings and anything else associated to interracial couple marriage, which would be contrary to their religious beliefs.

Doesn't sound so good now, does it?

Again, when someone is turned away for their attire not being appropriate for the venue, they are not being discriminated against. They have only to wear the appropriate attire and they will be admitted.

Also, the caterer is literally providing food for an event. They are not required to attend the event, participate in the event in any way. If you advertise your business you cannot turn away clients based on protected statuses. You are not required to do anything those clients want. For example, if you are a baker, you don't have to provide two grooms on the top of the cake. If a gay couple chooses a cake you have for sale, you cannot choose to not sell them the cake because they are gay. If you are a florist and you have flowers for sale, you cannot refuse to sell flowers to a gay couple for their wedding. You are not required to plan said floral arrangements for the wedding.

This idea that caterers are being "forced" to do anything other than sell the sames ware that they are selling to everyone else is patently stupid.

Except no one was denied any pizza. It's the trumped up straw man of anti-religion bigots.

(April 3, 2015 at 3:13 pm)Mezmo! Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 3:04 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: If they came in for pizza no I wouldn't kick them out, seeing that I am a pizza joint. If they are there to provoke or intimidate then yes I am well with in my right to do so, just as I would with any group.

Does the owner of a fine dining establishment have the right to enforce a dress code?

I can go home and change. Gays can't. Your analogy sucks.

No one said anyone was denied any pizza! You are a hypocrite! The lady said she would deny her services to gay people if they asked her. She said those words. That's what this thread is about.