To me the answer is very simple. If you can't do business in a fair and welcoming way with everyone and in accordance with the laws and expectations of your society, you shouldn't be in business. You have a clear choice in the matter, according to your own holy book, between mammon and god. If you really, actually have the faith in your god you say you do, it shouldn't even be a struggle for you to choose your god over money, right? This goes for every exemption religious people want to bitch and whine until they get, including not being willing to do your job as a pharmacist or doctor, and not being willing to follow the law regarding health care.

(April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am)A Theist Wrote:

(April 2, 2015 at 4:23 am)Norman Humann Wrote: .......And what compromise do you suggest?......

The pizza shop owner indicated that she didn't have a problem with gays coming into her business and ordering pizza. However, she would have a problem catering a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs. The compromise: allow her business to continue serving gays and the rest of the public in her establishment, but not forcing her and other business owners of faith to accommodate gay weddings and anything else associated to gay marriage, which would be contrary to their religious beliefs.

I take it then that as a Christian, if you were treated as a second-class citizen, refused service (at whichever level you choose to stipulate for this conversation) based solely on your faith ("We won't serve bigots!"), that you'd take it quietly, without so much as a murmur, and with no cries of "persecution!"? You'd eschew using your right to free speech and clam up about it? Take it like a man?

If so, you're a very rare Christian, indeed. 

(April 3, 2015 at 11:15 am)Esquilax Wrote: And would the same courtesies be extended to those wanting to not serve christian weddings?

Sure. If a muslim business, for example, has an issue with serving Christian weddings then the business shouldn't be forced to do so. I'd go to another business establishment that would.

(April 3, 2015 at 1:09 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:15 am)Esquilax Wrote: And would the same courtesies be extended to those wanting to not serve christian weddings?

Sure. If a muslim business, for example, has an issue with serving Christian weddings then the business shouldn't be forced to do so. I'd go to another business establishment that would.

The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

(April 2, 2015 at 10:32 pm)Judi Lynn Wrote: This sort of fundraising is what makes me ill. ...

I recommend that you do not look at the link again, as it continues to grow, though not as fast as in that one hour.

One of the things that strikes me about it is looking at the brilliance of the GoFundMe site.  They collect, in the U.S. and Canada, 7.9% plus $0.30 per donation.  At the current amount (don't look if you are good at math and reverse calculate, unless you want to know the current amount)


That is GoFundMe's take on what has been raised so far.  I wish I had thought of some web site in which I were the middle man, taking a piece of everything, like PayPal and this and eBay and.....


For the total that the above is calculated from



I have not bothered to double check my calculations, but anyone interested may do so from those numbers, or they can calculate from whatever is current at the time that they check, as it will be virtually certain to be more.

(April 3, 2015 at 11:28 am)Desert Diva Wrote: To me the answer is very simple.  If you can't do business in a fair and welcoming way with everyone and in accordance with the laws and expectations of your society, you shouldn't be in business. 

So now free enterprise is set aside so as to make businesses instruments of government social engineering. "You will be made to care!"

Suppose a dominatrix with slave in tow asks a halal caterer to serve at their collaring ceremony/wedding. Does anyone here think that the government should force the halal caterer to do so even though he/she disapproves of BDSM relationships?

(April 3, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am)A Theist Wrote: The pizza shop owner indicated that she didn't have a problem with gays coming into her business and ordering pizza. However, she would have a problem catering a gay wedding because of her religious beliefs. The compromise: allow her business to continue serving gays and the rest of the public in her establishment, but not forcing her and other business owners of faith to accommodate gay weddings and anything else associated to gay marriage, which would be contrary to their religious beliefs.

I take it then that as a Christian, if you were treated as a second-class citizen, refused service (at whichever level you choose to stipulate for this conversation) based solely on your faith ("We won't serve bigots!"), that you'd take it quietly, without so much as a murmur, and with no cries of "persecution!"? You'd eschew using your right to free speech and clam up about it? Take it like a man?

If so, you're a very rare Christian, indeed. 

That isn't a fair comparison, because Christians are common as dirt in this country, so it would be easy to find someone who would serve him.  To be a fair comparison, it would have to be that many businesses would refuse to serve him, like black people experienced 3/4 of a century ago.

I wonder if a christian would be fine with me not serving them because I don't feel like serving them? Or must I have an arbitrary religious reason? Can I make up a religion on the spot or must it have been written about a long time ago?

It's far simpler to just ask the pro-discrimination people if they'd be fine with a business turning away all african-americans based on a religious belief.

(April 3, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Mezmo! Wrote:

(April 3, 2015 at 11:28 am)Desert Diva Wrote: To me the answer is very simple.  If you can't do business in a fair and welcoming way with everyone and in accordance with the laws and expectations of your society, you shouldn't be in business. 

So now free enterprise is set aside so as to make businesses instruments of government social engineering. "You will be made to care!"

Suppose a dominatrix with slave in tow asks a halal caterer to serve at their collaring ceremony/wedding. Does anyone here think that the government should force the halal caterer to do so even though he/she disapproves of BDSM relationships?

If your going to operate a public catering business then you have to abide by anti-discrimination laws, the business does not get to circumvent the law because of the owners personal beliefs.