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~~John V~~ · April 18, 2015 at 1:33 am

(April 14, 2015 at 11:48 pm)Iroscato Wrote: So let us for a moment imagine God is real, and a theist dies and goes to heaven. Now imagine 30 or so years later, the child of that theist, who ended up being an atheist, dies and gets sent to hell for his non-belief.

Common misconception.

That people are saved solely by belief does not mean the converse - that people are damned solely for non-belief - is true.

People are judged for all their sins.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: April 18, 2015 at 7:52 am by The Grand Nudger.)

Amusing....because as far as I'm aware..there's absolutely nothing that a human being can do for which we sentence them to eternal damnation in a fiery pit. Not even if we lumped every crime or misdeed anyone has ever done together. Not even if we lump every crime or misdeed of every human being that has ever lived together.......I'm sure you'll have some excuse for god on this count (whether you deign to share it or not).......but I'm also willing to bet my left nut that you live your life in a manner that exposes the abject deceit involved in any such proclamation of acceptance. Guess I;m just an optimist, always assuming that people are nowhere near as capricious as they believe themselves (or their gods) to be.

-course...I've been wrong before.

**Brakeman** · (This post was last modified: April 18, 2015 at 7:53 am by Brakeman.)

(April 18, 2015 at 1:33 am)alpha male Wrote:
(April 14, 2015 at 11:48 pm)Iroscato Wrote: So let us for a moment imagine God is real, and a theist dies and goes to heaven. Now imagine 30 or so years later, the child of that theist, who ended up being an atheist, dies and gets sent to hell for his non-belief.
Common misconception.
That people are saved solely by belief does not mean the converse - that people are damned solely for non-belief - is true.
People are judged for all their sins.

So that old "only way to heaven is through jesus" line in the bible and in christian mantra everywhere is bullshit huh?
Good to know..

Nope · (This post was last modified: April 18, 2015 at 8:18 am by Nope.)

(April 18, 2015 at 1:33 am)alpha male Wrote:
(April 14, 2015 at 11:48 pm)Iroscato Wrote: So let us for a moment imagine God is real, and a theist dies and goes to heaven. Now imagine 30 or so years later, the child of that theist, who ended up being an atheist, dies and gets sent to hell for his non-belief.
Common misconception.
That people are saved solely by belief does not mean the converse - that people are damned solely for non-belief - is true.
People are judged for all their sins.

Then believers should be in hell also. We all know that Christians are no better or worse than nonChristians. People don't stop sinning once they are saved.

(April 17, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Polaris Wrote:
(April 16, 2015 at 10:42 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Polaris thinks assertions are arguments.
Go, go human lie detector!
You think your emotions dicate truths. You rely too much on your emotions in discussion.
Some daft guy mentioned that the rapist should fund the women they harmed....with what exactly?

They had currency back then. Even the bible mentions money.

Quote:Exodus 22:25
25 "If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest.[/size][/font][/size][/color]

(April 16, 2015 at 7:19 pm)Polaris Wrote:
(April 15, 2015 at 11:28 pm)dyresand Wrote: But god of the bible is not forgiving or even less merciful unless you ask for mercy and even still.... he woudn't show it.

Exodus 32

“I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.” But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

And then he showed them by killing all their firstborns. It says in the bible that god hardened the Egyptian leader's heart so god, if he had been real, wouldn't that make bible god responsible for any stubbornness the Egyptians felt?

**robvalue** · April 18, 2015 at 9:14 am

God is a sick piece of shit. If I was a Christian, I'd be pushing very hard for the whole book to be man made metaphor. I couldn't live with worshipping a being that I actually thought did the stuff in that book.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: April 18, 2015 at 10:10 am by The Grand Nudger.)

Neither can they..which is why they spend so much time trying to convince themselves - through the medium..in this case..of us..that it's some "other" this or that, that some nebulous or incomprehensible thing or situation makes it all okay -and not just okay.....right and certain and fulfilling. That's been my read, of the average christer, anyway.
We are the same animals, after all.

**robvalue** · April 18, 2015 at 9:49 am

Yeah, it's a bit of a contradiction. They spend the whole time trying to convince us the bible is the word of God, while also trying to convince us none of it means what it says.

They need to figure out which it is before sticking it up our asses.

dyresand · April 18, 2015 at 11:40 am

Argument still stands... do not teach your child about god and jesus the end.
If you have well... tough luck you better hope god doesn't have a stick up his ass
and puts your kid in heaven.

Godscreated · April 18, 2015 at 6:55 pm

(April 18, 2015 at 7:45 am)Rhythm Wrote: Amusing....because as far as I'm aware..there's absolutely nothing that a human being can do for which we sentence them to eternal damnation in a fiery pit. Not even if we lumped every crime or misdeed anyone has ever done together. Not even if we lump every crime or misdeed of every human being that has ever lived together.......I'm sure you'll have some excuse for god on this count (whether you deign to share it or not).......but I'm also willing to bet my left nut that you live your life in a manner that exposes the abject deceit involved in any such proclamation of acceptance. Guess I;m just an optimist, always assuming that people are nowhere near as capricious as they believe themselves (or their gods) to be.

-course...I've been wrong before.

News flash, you just described what Christ did so people do not need to go to hell, is it to much to ask people to believe in what He did to gain an eternal life free of hell.
Also, God is the creator of all and all things, this is His universe and His rules reign supreme.

GC

**Faith No More** · (This post was last modified: April 18, 2015 at 7:42 pm by Faith No More.)

(April 17, 2015 at 12:49 am)wallym Wrote:

We're all pals here, no reason for lies. Besides, I'm sure there is some PETA person out there who sees you eating a chicken finger and thinks you're a selfish prick, because they've got even more empathy for things than you. Of course, they're just overly sensitive weirdos. It's funny how many people just happen to be living the perfect balance. That confidence in our own beliefs is a weird thing. I'm not sure what the purpose of it is. Not judging, I agree I'm a selfish prick :)
But the more important moral of my story, is that I wasn't a selfish prick when I was religious. I had some selfish tendencies, but the illusion of connectedness and intrinsic value of humans a belief in God provided combined with not putting too much thought into it made me a better person.
I desperately wish I could get inside other people's brains to see what they're thinking is. Do people really care if a bunch of people in Africa starve? They 'feel' like they do. But most people aren't exactly taking out a 2nd mortgage to make sure those people get food. The interesting thing with charity, is you can literally put a number on how much you care. What do you buy for yourself before people who need the money to live get a cut?
Every dollar is a choice, really. That's why rich people don't get into heaven in the story. Because every dollar you spend could be spent on saving other people's lives. If you buy 3 mansions first like a Hollywood Philanthropist, that's just saying you care about someone more than a 4th mansion, but less than a 3rd mansion. But it's not really any different than getting the new Ipad, or eating at a fancy restaurant.
It's like being on the way to the movies, and coming across an overturned bus on fire. How many of those kids do you have to try and save to be a good person? Can you save 4 of the 10 and then leave the other 6, go to your movie, and feel good about yourself?
There's a gap between what people 'feel' and their behavior. I'm 'honest' in that I view my behavior as the indicator. And my behavior says I don't give a shit.
The confusing thing for me was why more people don't wander down this line of reasoning. But that's where whatever psychological disorder I'm working with comes into play, I think. The 'feel' portion of my brain does not put up much of a fight, and I that may be where my road diverges.
Sort of like the shades of selfish prick, it's a lot like that with religion. We both think Religious people are buying into a big pile of made up bullshit. But I'm PETA, and I think most atheists are still buying into their own made up bullshit. And I'm sure there is some sociopath murderer who thinks my caring a little about somethings is just a bunch of bullshit as well.
It's interesting stuff.

I honestly can't relate to any of that. Even in my earliest memory I felt a great compassion for my fellow human beings without religion. I do agree that I don't act upon my compassion as much as I should, but that's more due to life beating me down. I didn't have some semblance of a normal life until I was thirty, and even five years later, I still have just enough energy to function properly and take care of my kids. After getting through the day, I have nothing left to give to anyone else. Things are getting easier, though, and I've started coming up with ideas of how I can help others.
I agree that, as a society, we pay lip-service to helping others, but when it comes to actually doing something about it, we go about our selfish lives. It does sound, however, that your just using that as an excuse to justify your own callousness.

(April 17, 2015 at 8:47 pm)Polaris Wrote: You think your emotions dicate truths. You rely too much on your emotions in discussion.

Given I'm a somewhat nihilistic atheist, I don't see how my emotions could dictate truth, unless of course you are trying to claim I actually desire a universe devoid of meaning. No, I try to set aside my emotions as much as possible when trying to determine truth, which is why I don't cling to the false security of an invisible man watching over me.

I do let my emotions get the best of me in discussions, however, but all that does is makes me unable to tolerate stupidity and assholes.

(April 18, 2015 at 1:33 am)alpha male Wrote: Common misconception.

That people are saved solely by belief does not mean the converse - that people are damned solely for non-belief - is true.

People are judged for all their sins.

And if you're a non-believer, there's no way to be cleansed of said sins, so non-belief automatically damns you to hell.

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