I'm not sure what to say here. I can see both sides of the argument.

I'm with you Pyrrho, it's hard for me to comprehend. I don't try and deny people feel this way; it must be horrible. But I don't feel male or female, I'm just me. If anything, I'm way more like a female than a male anyhow by societal norms. I guess you're never going to know exactly what this is like unless you've experienced it, like many things.

I hate societal norms. I would be interested the impact it would have on this condition if stereotypes were removed. Maybe nothing, I don't know.

Has anyone here who is fully limbed experienced a phantom limb?

That's an example of the body not matching the make-up of the brain.

Are you able to experience it?

Inversely, people suffering from Body integrity identity disorder feel as if they have an extra limb and would be happier if it was amputated. Can we actually understand how that feels if we are not afflicted that way ourselves? Not without a great amount of difficulty. That's because our brains match our bodies. With trangendered people it does nt. So when people say that they don't feel either male or female, what they are actually saying is that they are not transgendered.

So rather than just dismiss what the child is going through based on a lack of personal understanding, let's have some acknowledgement that gender dysphoria is a genuine medical problem that has been studied for many decades by an often hostile medical establishment which has eventually come to the conclusion that the only way to treat the condition is the way that they are currently treating this child.

Unless you want to claim that your own personal feelings should carry more weight than a body of evidence obtained using the scientific method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integr...y_disorder

Who is dismissing it?

I admit I have no idea what this feels like, just like people who have never been depressed don't have any idea what that feels like either.

I don't feel hugely comfortable in my body either, I feel like I should have been born an animal. I wonder if there is a condition for this? I'm sure it's not as strong a feeling as people with these disorders have.

(April 26, 2015 at 6:35 am)robvalue Wrote: Who is dismissing it?

I don't think you're dismissing it, just misunderstanding and conflating it. 

The reason you are "just you" I suspect is that you know nothing different. If "you" mentally didn't match up with how your body physically manifests, I would bet that would be a different thing. 

What I'm seeing is that some people are still conflating "societal norms" with transgender identity. Again, what we have to understand is that this isn't cross dressing. This isn't a boy who wants to be like a girl and is therefore flouting societal norms, but rather a girl in a boy's body. I have heard it described that people with GID sometimes feel surprised when they see their penis, or they even have a phantom penis if its the other way around.

Sure. I admit I don't know much about it. I was only wondering if norms make it worse. Sorry if I didn't word it very well, I know it's not the same as a mismatch with norms.

I was trying to explain why I find it hard to know what it feels like.

Frankly, if she really wants to become a woman, she should be given that choice after proper diagnosis and counseling to make sure it's not from some pressure or psychological manipulation. I am glad she has such supportive parents though. I mean same gender couples have to deal with a lot in their own lives as it is, and after that being so supportive in this case takes a lot of courage.

What amazes me however is that how a three year old toddler knows the difference between genders and how they are "supposed" to be like. This kind of proves that gender identities go a bit deeper than just societal norms.

(April 25, 2015 at 8:17 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: To inflict what, exactly? They aren't inflicting anything on her. She has a condition called Gender Identity Disorder. She was born physically male and mentally female. This is a condition recognized by the DSM-V. It has been studied, and because of the advancement of society, is being de-stigmatized. They are allowing her to express her true self, and make a bigger decision about surgery as a 14-15 year old by delaying puberty so she will have a more complete transition if she so chooses.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the DSM-V. It has been widely criticized for lacking empirical support for many of its classifications: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

I know someone who has this, we haven't talked about it a whole lot though. It's interesting what you guys have said about it, it helps me understand it better.

(April 26, 2015 at 7:10 am)Nestor Wrote:

(April 25, 2015 at 8:17 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: To inflict what, exactly? They aren't inflicting anything on her. She has a condition called Gender Identity Disorder. She was born physically male and mentally female. This is a condition recognized by the DSM-V. It has been studied, and because of the advancement of society, is being de-stigmatized. They are allowing her to express her true self, and make a bigger decision about surgery as a 14-15 year old by delaying puberty so she will have a more complete transition if she so chooses.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the DSM-V. It has been widely criticized for lacking empirical support for many of its classifications: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

And the alternative is? 

(April 26, 2015 at 8:40 am)Pizza Wrote:

(April 26, 2015 at 7:10 am)Nestor Wrote: I wouldn't put too much faith in the DSM-V. It has been widely criticized for lacking empirical support for many of its classifications: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

And the alternative is? 

To what?