We have a data sample of one universe. We have no "created" or "non created" sample to compare ours to.

Jericho: wow man! That is really amazing Sounds like you've made a great friend, and I'm very impressed at you getting your position over to him and him giving it such respect. I wish we had more theists on the forum like him, so we could have more fruitful debates. Maybe he'd like to join us? I'd certainly enjoy such an enlightened perspective.

Rob: He comes by where I work almost daily to chat and get food. He also knows that I frequent this forum (since he saw me on it yesterday). He seemed interested in the intellectual conversations that take place here. I'll actually ask him within the next couple days if he'd be interested in joining the site.

That is brilliant! I'm stunned If I didn't know better I'd say you were winding us up

Cool, that would be great! He can always lurk for a while first to see what he thinks before deciding whether to join up. We slag off religion a lot, I openly do so, but I'm very careful to attack ideas and not people. I ridicule ideas that are ridiculous. But I don't mean to pass on the insults to the actual people. Unfortunately, some people can't differentiate between themselves and their beliefs. As long as he can handle that, he'll get on great here I'm sure.

I'm very interested in what theists have to say, especially when it gets further than "atheists suck". If someone is debating honesty and reasonably, then I wouldn't start randomly slagging off their beliefs during that debate. I tend to have fun with general religious beliefs in other threads, sometimes just for kicks, and sometimes to make a point, but not aimed at any particular person. I appreciate this is somewhat of a lion's den, so I respect theists who come here looking for honest interaction.

I think it's important for people to be able to laugh at themselves, and for ideas not to be taken too seriously and held to be above criticism or humour. I even like making fun of atheism sometimes Bunch of nerds with their notebooks and their telescopes and their conclusions and their refusal to acknowledge obvious evidence.

I agree. When we were having our debate, it was more like us discussing our own views rather than belittle each other's. He seemed interested and even read a few of the threads that I was looking at. So we'll see if he decides to join.

Excellent!

That's another important point, owning your beliefs. I see a lot of theists who don't get this point, they don't see the difference between their beliefs and facts. They talk as if they are the same thing. So they aren't so much debating me as just telling me I am wrong from the outset. That never gets anywhere. I make every effort to own my beliefs and opinions, and to back them up with arguments and evidence.

I myself have a simple rule and process I go by. When it comes to the workplace or my personal relationships with friends and family, I never bring up my views on religion. If I am asked what I believe in, I respond with two questions:

1. Do you really want to know?
2. Will your opinion of me change depending on my answer?

If they say yes to the first, then I ask the second. If anyone so much as hesitates on the second question, they can forget about knowing my views on religion. Less messy that way.

That's a really good system, I like it

Well it certainly helps filter out people who don't need to be a part of my life.

If I were an atheist, I wouldn't care what the average theist does or really think too much about them. 

(April 28, 2015 at 7:06 pm)Polaris Wrote: If I were an atheist, I wouldn't care what the average theist does or really think too much about them. 

I only care when theists vote for things that are objectively bad, like pro-war, anti-science representatives, or trying to force schools to teach creationism as science.