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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 11:34 am
I'm at a loss as to what Ronedee was expecting for an answer.
Is he trying to pull a Pascal's Wager?
Is he trying (and failing, spectacularly) to catch someone in a gotcha?
Is he trying to pull the old "it's actually atheists who are closed minded" thing?
All I know is that nothing deserves worship. Ever. Even if it gave me life, even if it loves me. I love my mom to death. She has, and continues to do, so much for me. But I don't worship her. That would be creepy and silly. The same goes for any god creature. If one exists, err, thanks for existence, but no, you're not my lord and master.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2015 at 12:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Indeed, sugar barons existed, their plantations provided the opportunity of sustenance for the slaves that worked them - those slaves could be extinguished in an instant by the plantation owner, they only persisted as the work boss saw fit, their very lives were predicate upon this persons whims and desires. They couldn't escape, either..if they ran, they'd be killed. Not one ounce of any of this requires a hypothetical.
Poor old Ron here seems to be suggesting that the existence of those sugar barons might give those slaves some reason to accept that the baron was their master.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:23 pm
(June 1, 2015 at 9:16 am)robvalue Wrote: Hey, that's great to hear! I'm glad it has helped you being here 
Regarding damnation, any god who isn't a complete jerk would surely never punish you for using your brain and being honest. And I'm sure he would prefer someone leading a good, worthwhile life to someone always praying for favours and grovelling on the floor to storybook characters they know can't be real.
If it is really the God of the bible, which is pretty much a guaranteed impossibility, he's such an evil lying crazy jerk that nothing you do is going to make much difference to his erratic temper tantrum decision making. I'm sure over time the image of this foul, angry God (why does he have all these human emotions?) will fade, and you'll be able to put it firmly behind you
I hope you continue to feel stronger, it's great to have you on the forum!
Thanks Rob
The main thing it's done for me - coming here - is made my atheism real rather than an abstract concept; most of my friends IRL are atheists but we don't have the sorts of debates to be found on this site - we don't talk about atheism or religion at all really. But by not talking about it we don't validate our feelings and that in itself leads to uncertainty and doubt. No man is an island and all that. So by coming here and actually voicing (well, posting) my feelings and opinions it has made them a lot more real and concrete to me. The psychological effect of that really cannot be underestimated - it's absolutely amazing. Likewise seeing other people voice similar and other concerns, with total conviction, has helped to remove doubts and strengthen my opinions even more. So in other words the whole thing has been very therapeutic.
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:25 pm
(June 1, 2015 at 11:34 am)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm at a loss as to what Ronedee was expecting for an answer.
From what it must please him to call his responses so far, it looks as though he's pulling the old "atheists refuse to believe even when my god proves itself" routine; despite each and every response to his OP saying the exact opposite and his own card-palming of switching belief for worship. He's so stuck on his groove that he's forced to follow the script even though nobody has given him the feed line he expected.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:27 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2015 at 12:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Advanced penis joke therapy ftw Emjay!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2015 at 12:43 pm by emjay.)
(June 1, 2015 at 10:21 am)Pyrrho Wrote: (June 1, 2015 at 8:47 am)emjay Wrote: Rob, I am gradually moving towards your position thanks to joining this site. But it will take time. Before coming here I did not give much thought to the idea of rejecting God on ethical grounds or even accepting hypothetical damnation on those grounds, but being on this site and seeing all the arguments put forward has been enlightening in that regard, and that in itself has strengthened my atheism enormously.
Sometimes a picture is helpful to get things into proper perspective. Here is something to think about the next time some stupid Christian prates glibly about how good God is:
![[Image: EmqgRtl.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=godlessmom.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2FEmqgRtl.jpg)
Yes, I've seen Minimalist put up a lot of these sorts of images as well. They have really helped to make me see that there really are no prayers answered anywhere. And when people think that god is answering their petty requests it's nothing more than the horoscope effect or something very similar.
(June 1, 2015 at 12:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Advanced penis joke therapy ftw Emjay!
Er... what??? One day I'll get the hang of your sense of humour... I hope 
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:44 pm
(June 1, 2015 at 11:34 am)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm at a loss as to what Ronedee was expecting for an answer. I think he wanted a bunch of "no" answers so he could dismiss us as close-minded. This isn't the first time we've had a theist ask the same question and point to the "no" answers as showing that it's not that we don't believe in god, but that we reject his generous offer and wouldn't even recognize him if he personally walked up and greeted us. As I said earlier in this thread, that should be unsatisfying for the theist. In part because it just serves as a reminder that god doesn't ever show up and make the whole discussion moot. Having to approach it from the "can't prove he doesn't" side would have to be frustrating when you are talking about the most powerful and amazing being in all of reality.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:47 pm
I'm so pleased for you emjay This certainly is a wonderful community, with many voices of reason. It's made my day to hear how much it has benefited you talking to us all
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:50 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2015 at 12:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You knew that the purpose of this forum is to provide a springboard for dick jokes..and that most of us are primarily engaged in providing dick jokes..right? Any good debate is accidental. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: IF in the end, you find that God does exist ....
June 1, 2015 at 12:54 pm
(May 31, 2015 at 9:36 pm) pid=\955498' Wrote: (May 31, 2015 at 9:30 pm)Captain Monkeyshines Wrote: If the evidence proves that there is a god, then yes I would accept the fact.....follow and sing his praises (accepting said god as a savior) never. He's a psycopathic asshat, besides, I'd make a horrible cloud dweller. I hate lyres and angles. I would need sunglasses too... those streets of gold would be blindingly bright in the sunshine.
You are forgetting that without angles the world would be pointless.
I'll get my coat.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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