ditto that.

Its not the "docters". Its a group effort doing the best we can with what we got. And there is 50 shades of gray. Are you scared? we should be, its not easy.

(June 11, 2015 at 7:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Well, even if they do get into power, they can't just rewrite stuff to be whatever they want. I wouldn't expect them to receive enough backing to do something as ridiculous as that.

Any legislation about anything could be fucked up if you have maniacs in charge with no leash.

I agree that if it is to be done at all, it needs to be incredibly carefully worded and implemented. Quite possibly it could/should be limited to definite terminal cases, and all reasonable steps taken to combat coercion. Sure, it wouldn't be perfect, no system is. But I don't think that concern justifies making every terminal patient suffer for months instead when they genuinely want to die, personally.

The reasoning here is sound. I can't argue with you. The thing is, you're telling them how they need to make it look on paper. Maybe in the UK, that's fine. But here in the states they always make things look good on paper, yet in practice things are done very differently. No matter how they word it somebody will be able to interpret it in a way that lets them do what they want to do.  Only now the doctor will have the law on his side.

My other grandmother suffered a stroke and was on the machine for two weeks when the doctors started talking about pulling the plug. Her sons said no but the doctor went behind their backs and did it anyway talking about she was brain dead. She lived for two more years, paralyzed but conscious. If doctors will do this despite what the law says, imagine if they had the law on their side.

(June 11, 2015 at 10:01 am)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(June 11, 2015 at 7:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Well, even if they do get into power, they can't just rewrite stuff to be whatever they want. I wouldn't expect them to receive enough backing to do something as ridiculous as that.

Any legislation about anything could be fucked up if you have maniacs in charge with no leash.

I agree that if it is to be done at all, it needs to be incredibly carefully worded and implemented. Quite possibly it could/should be limited to definite terminal cases, and all reasonable steps taken to combat coercion. Sure, it wouldn't be perfect, no system is. But I don't think that concern justifies making every terminal patient suffer for months instead when they genuinely want to die, personally.

The reasoning here is sound. I can't argue with you. The thing is, you're telling them how they need to make it look on paper. Maybe in the UK, that's fine. But here in the states they always make things look good on paper, yet in practice things are done very differently. No matter how they word it somebody will be able to interpret it in a way that lets them do what they want to do.  Only now the doctor will have the law on his side.

My other grandmother suffered a stroke and was on the machine for two weeks when the doctors started talking about pulling the plug. Her sons said no but the doctor went behind their backs and did it anyway talking about she was brain dead. She lived for two more years, paralyzed but conscious. If doctors will do this despite what the law says, imagine if they had the law on their side.

this is based on making mistakes.  What mistakes are we making right now? 

Rhonda: Sure, there needs to be proper consent given. The word of the doctors shouldn't not be enough. If the plug has been pulled, they should then be responsible for providing evidence that not only consent was given, but coercion was checked and so on.

I'm very sorry to hear about those doctors doing that, of course that is wrong. I understand your concern about people like that getting worse. Medical malpractice is a shocking thing.

I'm only offering my opinions here, I'm not particularly well educated on the law or the details involved. I'm just putting forward what I would see as sensible. It sounds like more regulation is needed already, if doctors get away with plug pulling.

Sure, legislating euthanasia would be tricky, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to deny people what ought to be a basic human right. Legislating rights is always going to be difficult and nuanced, but that's not a valid reason to deny people the right to end their suffering peacefully.

There is no guarantee that someone on life support for 1-2 days will come out with a reasonable facsimile of a quality life, on the other hand, there is no guarantee that someone in a coma for a month or longer will not come out in reasonably good condition. Doctors do have a tough job.

Not for the squeamish!


Think it is time for the doctor to step in and pull the plug or continue until the family says ok?

(June 9, 2015 at 9:31 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Not only do I think euthanasia should be legal, I think suicide should be legal.  I think anyone should be allowed to kill themselves whenever they want, for whatever reason seems sufficient to them.  And I think that facilities for doing that should be provided.

Right now, my life is pretty good, but I know eventually things will go bad.  When they do, I plan on taking a trip to Switzerland if the laws do not change.

For those who would want to stop me, I say, FUCK YOU.  It is my life, not yours.  As far as I am concerned, you may live and suffer if it pleases you to do so, but my life is mine.  Anyone who would try to stop me can fucking go to hell.  Frankly, I am ready to buy a gun and shoot any motherfucker who wants to try to stop me.  Hopefully, they will not die immediately from the gunshot wound, but will linger on for a week or two in agony, the motherfucking sons of bitches.

A person can kill himself anytime he wants to if he doesn't go blabbing about it to someone else.  When that happens in America the thug cops will barge in with their guns drawn and gleefully fill the person full of hot lead.  Happens all the time.  

The main problem with suicide is that insurance companies don't want to make the payout.  So if a person doesn't have an insurance policy he can cut his own throat in peace.  

If a person is terminally ill and has an insurance policy he can usually cash it out at half value and then cut his own throat.  

If a person really wanted to die all he has to do is walk down the street with a visible wad of cash.  When a mugger shows up to take it then he can put up a fight and the mugger will kill him.  It's suicide without being obvious.

A lot of old women will usually get together in a car and the driver will run into a bridge, killing all of them.  That's when they don't want to die alone.  The cops write it off as an accident.  

Once you know you're a goner if you don't pull the plug on yourself don't expect other people to do it for you. 

But some people want the full experience of hanging on to the bitter end and suffering all of the pain and anxiety that goes with it.  When it's my time I won't mind dying, I just don't want it to take all day.

Yeah, I don't mind dying, I just don't want to be around when it happens. ~ somebody

Tell that to Dignitas who are actively lobbying for extensions on who they can bump off, including those with non-terminal conditions such as Bipolar disorder, sufferers of which regularly have suicidal episodes.
Then there was Shipman and that nurse in the drip tampering case.

In any case the legislation regarding pain relief allows for a doctor to administer a fatal dose of morphine if the patient needs it to relieve pain.

(June 11, 2015 at 7:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Well, even if they do get into power, they can't just rewrite stuff to be whatever they want. I wouldn't expect them to receive enough backing to do something as ridiculous as that.

1) I would point out the difference between improbable and impossible.

2) Once in power with a majority that is precisely what they can do, they could even bypass the House of Lords with current legislation.

Just because you don't expect such a situation to occur doesn't mean that such an eventuality should not be planned for.