But seriously, how black is not black enough any more? Where do you draw the line? As soon as you make race a membership criterion, it inevitably leads down a very murky unpleasant road. People of Color are not a separate kind of people that you can distinguish in a meaningful way from the rest. It's something that is to be identified with culture as much as anything and cannot possibly be formalized without turning into some kind of dystopian scenario where people have to get genetically tested or show proof of ancestry.

(June 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm)Alex K Wrote: But seriously, how black is not black enough any more? Where do you draw the line? It leads down a very murky road.

Is that even an issue?  Does one have to be black to genuinely care about the advancement of people who are?

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this.

Damn you, Alex the edit ninja. 

(June 12, 2015 at 12:57 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(June 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm)Alex K Wrote: But seriously, how black is not black enough any more? Where do you draw the line? It leads down a very murky road.

Is that even an issue?  Does one have to be black to genuinely care about the advancement of people who are?

I'm precisely saying that it can't be an issue. But apparently it is, if I read this news item correctly.

(June 12, 2015 at 12:55 pm)Alex K Wrote: But seriously, how black is not black enough any more? Where do you draw the line? As soon as you make race a membership criterion, it inevitably leads down a very murky unpleasant road. People of Color are not a separate kind of people that you can distinguish in a meaningful way from the rest.

people were happy enough with what she was up to when they thought she was black.

(June 12, 2015 at 12:59 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: people were happy enough with what she was up to when they thought she was black.

And again what does that even mean, they thought she was black?! It seems to have little to do with skin color and everything with connotations, expectations, attitude.

Legally adopted uncontestedly black siblings would be the clincher, no ??

(I am not speculating at all on any putative psychological issues she might have, and I think the thread is better for not going there)

(June 12, 2015 at 11:54 am)Secular Elf Wrote: Ethically however, she is in deep shit. She lied on her forms about her race, and she is now a professor of African-American Studies at a college, and a local NAACP chapter president. It will be interesting to see how this story will end.

Ethically I think she's fine. Legally she might not be. If some of those forms were legal documents, then lying on them might be a criminal offense. However, I don't see anything wrong with a white person being a professor of African-American studies, nor being a NAACP chapter president. I don't really see any ethical issue with lying about your race on unofficial / non-legal documents, especially if your prospects would be restricted in some way if you didn't lie.

For example, if she was required to be non-white to become a NAACP chapter president, then I don't think it's an ethics issue to lie on the form; that requirement is discriminatory, and her lying could be seen as an act of civil disobedience.

(June 12, 2015 at 12:59 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: people were happy enough with what she was up to when they thought she was black.

Boom! Perfect response. Can't kudos that post enough.

(June 12, 2015 at 1:05 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(June 12, 2015 at 11:54 am)Secular Elf Wrote: Ethically however, she is in deep shit.  She lied on her forms about her race, and she is now a professor of African-American Studies at a college, and a local NAACP chapter president.  It will be interesting to see how this story will end.

Ethically I think she's fine. Legally she might not be. If some of those forms were legal documents, then lying on them might be a criminal offense. However, I don't see anything wrong with a white person being a professor of African-American studies, nor being a NAACP chapter president. I don't really see any ethical issue with lying about your race on unofficial / non-legal documents, especially if your prospects would be restricted in some way if you didn't lie.

For example, if she was required to be non-white to become a NAACP chapter president, then I don't think it's an ethics issue to lie on the form; that requirement is discriminatory, and her lying could be seen as an act of civil disobedience.

Is there a hard legal definition in the US of when you are white or black, such that it could possibly be a legal issue?

In regards to the 'race' question on legal paperwork, a strong case could be made for any entity pressing for an answer other than 'human' is guilty of suborning perjury.

I'd like to see a few prosecutions (and convictions) on that matter and I think the country would be improved as a result.