(June 18, 2015 at 11:48 am)jesus_wept Wrote: Is  Christian death metal popular in America, or is it something only the real Jesus freaks would listen to?

Russia today is as reliable as Fox news. So I wouldn't put too much stock into what they say.

(June 18, 2015 at 11:48 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 11:38 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: He's apparently already been arrested.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33190735

Just saw that on the news.  I bet this capture had more to do with police investigation and BOLO of the car than the public spotting him. They got him in Shelby NC.

He was about three hours from me. I wonder where he was heading? Perhaps he was heading to Fayetteville? The city is next to a large military base and has a population that is made up of slightly more African Americans than whites.

http://www.blackcityinfo.com/north-carol...ville.html

Looks like Shelbyville's a little bit west of Charlotte. That's pretty random. Could be going to Fayetteville, indeed, but that would need a definite right turn, IIRC.

I used to live in SWNC, in the GA/Carolinas tri-county. Never been east of Asheville, though.

(June 18, 2015 at 7:23 am)Nope Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 7:09 am)Brian37 Wrote: I am not ready to call this a racist act. I'd have to know if this murderer said anything while shooting. But it could be simply a mentally disturbed individual just like the Newton shooter. If it was racist you could certainly say outside influences lead that sick fuck to that target, but I'd say mental illness regardless is going to come into play.

Even with that theater shooter, I don't like the legal standard of not guilty by reason of mental defect. I think outside a courtroom in psychology, you can know right from wrong, and be mentally ill at the same time. I think you can be guilty and mentally ill at the same time.

I think even with cases of religious violence, you are still talking about delusion and disenfranchisement combined to create acts of desperation.

That is a good point. The shooter could be mentally ill and the fact that he attacked a black church could have been random. Considering the history of racism and burning churches in the south, it is very easy to assume that racism was involved. I still think it might be racism, you are right, we shouldn't jump to conclusions yet.

CBS just announced that they are going to say what the gunman did before he opened fire. Perhaps that will give some insight into his state of mind at the time of the attack.

If the attacker had been brown and the church members white, this would be called terrorism

A very good point indeed. I have been following this news story all morning. At this time he has been brought into custody in Shelby, NC, near Charlotte. He is reported as saying that he wanted to kill black people and that he told one woman to make sure she tells what happened.

Unless other reports contradict it, I will have to call this racially motivated. My best guess is that he was influenced by some form of racist propaganda. He is 22 (young and dumb)

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(June 18, 2015 at 8:39 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: They were in a church, talking to their god. Was he not listening or does he not give a fuck what happens?

Indeed, that was my first thought also. It is like "You worship a supposedly all-powerful god and yet he cannot or will not stop his own worshippers from receiving harm." It brings me to mind the 20 kids in Delaware who were gunned down a couple of years ago. So the Christian God does not care about little kids either.

Quote:Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

— Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE)

This is an interesting question for the republicunts who run SC.

Quote:What y'all gon do #SenatorGraham #SenatorScott? Fly this rag at 1/2 mast 4 #Charleston shooting victims?

https://twitter.com/lifeandmorelife/stat...7387133952

Quote:So the Christian God does not care about little kids either.

Jesus is apparently so inept that he can't even cause a gun to jam.

Another aspect of this story is how we Seculars are being criticized for our response. Here is the link: How "Secular Humanists" Responded to Charleston Church Shooting http://www.fitsnews.com/2015/06/18/how-s...-shooting/

That was the very first thing I wanted to look at after watching the news this morning. My question was "I know we would criticize the prayer response, but I want to know how we should offer support for the people who are hurting from this." You know, show our humanity towards those who lost their loved ones. I am not saying we should not criticize the prayer response, I criticize it. How would each one of us offer our support to them.

I for one, would like to offer some kind of support in a fund to help offset their funeral expenses. The hands that help are better far than lips that pray, as Ingersoll said.

The shooter is from my county and went to my daughter's high school. He probably lived less than a mile from here.
While officially blacks are at 16% of the population, they appear to be closer to half of the people you see in stores and around town. So this kid was certainly familiar with a mixed race society.

From my observation, there is a fair amount of "closet" racism by whites that see the higher rate of crime as caused by the so called "black culture" as opposed to the normal cause of being raised in unsecured neighborhoods that breed crime in all races. By far though I see the more overt racism to be very much one sided and coming from the blacks. This terroristic act is a great surprise to us white locals. No one that I have spoken with was even aware of any local pockets of white racist groups. We don't know yet where this came from.

Threats have already started here, from what I'm told. This may get ugly as the locals are not the most rational people in the world here on either race. We can only hope for the best.

Update - There is another Dylann Roof who goes to the same school and from the same neighbor hood, but he is only 19. The poor boy is terrified because so many people think it is him...

(June 18, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Secular Elf Wrote: I am not saying we should not criticize the prayer response, I criticize it.

I don't. If it floats their boat under the circumstances why should I barge in and criticize? It would be on the same level as some forcing their prayers on people who didn't ask for it.

Quote: why should I barge in and criticize?

Because it is all they ever do.  Magical thinking is not going to solve anything.  So much easier to ask 'god' why he lets this shit happen rather than pay for mental health treatment and pass meaningful gun control.