(July 5, 2015 at 7:45 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Metis Wrote: Exactly. If God as described in traditional theologies is all knowing, he can't be all good because he's designed people explicitly for eternal torment in hell.

If he is all good then he can't be all knowing, because what good guy would create something knowing it would exist solely to be tortured forever and ever?

This isn't actually an atheist argument, but a very popular liberal Christian one. They use it not to show that God doesn't exist, but that the popular conception of him logically has to be mistaken.

Wait you understood that response? What the hell was he saying?

He is all knowing. The fact that we are part evil isn't due to God directly, but whom was chosen to teach us knowledge. These beings had reached there apex. They knew we too would reach it easily if only taught the things God intended. There were jealous of this and taught is sin in hoes that we wouldn't attain there height.

(July 5, 2015 at 7:38 pm)Metis Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 7:34 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: How does that contradict anything? Really just curious.

If God already knows everything, then he would know how all his plans would turn out long in advance. There would be no need for a Plan B because Plan A would always obtain the desired effect.

Yeah well I'm not so confident about his second last post Energy, return to the darkness we created? I can't tell if he's some kind of neo-Manichaean/gnostic or if that really just doesn't make any sense.

(July 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: He is all knowing. The fact that we are part evil isn't due to God directly, but whom was chosen to teach us knowledge. These beings had reached there apex. They knew we too would reach it easily if only taught the things God intended. There were jealous of this and taught is sin in hoes that we wouldn't attain there height.

Can I ask what religion it is you follow Pops? It will be a lot easier to answer you if I know what religious vocabulary to use in my responses.

It sounds Gnostic to me, but I may be misreading this horribly.

(July 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 7:45 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Wait you understood that response? What the hell was he saying?

He is all knowing. The fact that we are part evil isn't due to God directly, but whom was chosen to teach us knowledge. These beings had reached there apex. They knew we too would reach it easily if only taught the things God intended. There were jealous of this and taught is sin in hoes that we wouldn't attain there height.

(July 5, 2015 at 7:38 pm)Metis Wrote: If God already knows everything, then he would know how all his plans would turn out long in advance. There would be no need for a Plan B because Plan A would always obtain the desired effect.

This explanation didn't clear anything up, in fact you made things worse.

There is no one religion that I believe over others. I know that all main, ancient religious base is the same. Unfortinately , man made a mess of things through seperation.
I believe there is one God who created everything, or at least got the ball rolling. I believe we all have a personal connection with Universal good bad and chaos.

(July 5, 2015 at 1:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 12:48 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: It was better for one man to die so that the others learned to obey God TO THE LETTER than for people to believe that they were free to do whatever they wanted with God's commands.

You ever punish one child knowing that the others would learn from the example?

Does a company ever fire one employee for taking excessively long lunch breaks in order to get the others to shape up?

It happens all the time, and God did what anyone of us would do to teach the people not to mess.

Oh yeah people kill children all the time to teach them not to mess with things.  

Jenny-

As harsh as it seems, the Israelites did learn from the incident that God is not to be trifled with.

(July 5, 2015 at 7:58 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: There is no one religion that I believe over others. I know that all main, ancient religious base is the same. Unfortinately , man made a mess of things through seperation.
I believe there is one God who created everything, or at least got the ball rolling. I believe we all have a personal connection with Universal good bad and chaos.

Well, that helps narrow it down a little thank you. Some sort of Pantheist, okay. Do you subscribe to Lovelocks Gaia theory at all?

Your divide between good bad and chaos intrigues me, there are many religions with a dualistic divide between law and chaos, good and evil but the idea of good bad and chaos seems rather more reminiscent of the Catholic afterlife (Hell, Heaven, Purgatory).

May I ask what you think caused this desperation between man and the divine? Does this God have a name? Sorry if I'm asking so much at once, I find your beliefs very interesting.

(July 5, 2015 at 8:06 pm)Metis Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 7:58 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: There is no one religion that I believe over others. I know that all main, ancient religious base is the same. Unfortinately , man made a mess of things through seperation.
I believe there is one God who created everything, or at least got the ball rolling. I believe we all have a personal connection with Universal good bad and chaos.

Well, that helps narrow it down a little thank you. Some sort of Pantheist, okay. Do you subscribe to Lovelocks Gaia theory at all?

Your divide between good bad and chaos intrigues me, there are many religions with a dualistic divide between law and chaos, good and evil but the idea of good bad and chaos seems rather more reminiscent of the Catholic afterlife (Hell, Heaven, Purgatory).

May I ask what you think caused this desperation between man and the divine? Does this God have a name? Sorry if I'm asking so much at once, I find your beliefs very interesting.

Pops described a deist view, not a pantheist view.

But you knew that.

(July 5, 2015 at 8:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 1:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Oh yeah people kill children all the time to teach them not to mess with things.  

Jenny-

As harsh as it seems, the Israelites did learn from the incident that God is not to be trifled with.

All we do here is trifle with your imaginary friend.

(July 5, 2015 at 8:12 pm)Spooky Wrote:

(July 5, 2015 at 8:03 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Jenny-

As harsh as it seems, the Israelites did learn from the incident that God is not to be trifled with.

All we do here is trifle with your imaginary friend.

That has not gone unnoticed.