(July 14, 2015 at 12:51 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: That 1:3 is for the current population only, during the little time I was here, there were many here who just wanted to discuss their views and understand ours. Those that came to convert people were mostly shoot and run posters.

But I think the poll should have a confused option as well, because some people like professor and mk seem like they came here just because they confused this place to be something else and then decided to stay. I love their weird posts and ideas though!! :p

Makes sense.

(July 14, 2015 at 12:58 am)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm looking at the results of the poll.

I myself assumed that most theists who come here do so with the intent of trying to convert. I'm surprised that I was wrong and that only 1 out of 3 theists who come here do this, and that the majority really just come here for discussion and that's it.  

I think the results of this thread are definitely something to keep in mind when a new theist shows up on the forums. Take it a little easier on us and don't assume we're all trying to convert people all the time.

The thing is, actions speak louder than words. A lot of theists type at us from the very start with strawmen, proselytzing, and throwing [insert holy book here] verses at us; things we perceive partly as attempts to convert, but mostly it's just very rude. New theist members also tend to be the most chronic rulebreakers.  

I'll admit, we as a community can be a bit harder on new theist members because of our history with the above, but people like you have had it much easier here because you didn't do those things. Put more simply: you show respect for the forum, so I know I can speak for at least some of us when I say that's why we respect you back.

I count myself amongst those who respect theists who don't break the rules.

Nevertheless,

I find it counterproductive to be too lenient as to one's stated beliefs if they happen to be wrong and ultimately evil, be it that they know it, or not-- as is more often[universally, really] the case. If one supports the Catholic Church, for example, I will judge that person partly on that and nothing will stiffle my criticism in that direction, regardless of how well one comports himself.

Evil? What is that?

I understand "vile" and other words of disapproval, but what makes a thing evil?

(July 14, 2015 at 1:40 am)whateverist Wrote: Evil?  What is that?

I understand "vile" and other words of disapproval, but what makes a thing evil?

Evil, as per google:
profoundly immoral and malevolent.

(July 14, 2015 at 1:07 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

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(July 14, 2015 at 12:58 am)rexbeccarox Wrote: The thing is, actions speak louder than words. A lot of theists type at us from the very start with strawmen, proselytzing, and throwing [insert holy book here] verses at us; things we perceive partly as attempts to convert, but mostly it's just very rude. New theist members also tend to be the most chronic rulebreakers.  

I'll admit, we as a community can be a bit harder on new theist members because of our history with the above, but people like you have had it much easier here because you didn't do those things. Put more simply: you show respect for the forum, so I know I can speak for at least some of us when I say that's why we respect you back.

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I count myself amongst those who respect theists who don't break the rules.

Nevertheless,

I find it counterproductive to be too lenient as to one's stated beliefs if they happen to be wrong and ultimately evil, be it that they know it, or not-- as is more often[universally, really] the case. If one supports the Catholic Church, for example, I will judge that person partly on that and nothing will stiffle my criticism in that direction, regardless of how well one comports himself.

Reject the belief not the believer EP. I have encountered many believers outside here associated with really bad institutions but it's mostly because they were raised that way and didn't encounter real unbiased knowledge till a very later stage in their lives. So they are not the ones at fault, and if they are willing to discuss things openly, then what's the harm? Sure they might have a hidden agenda or what not, but it is only through a good discussion that we may hope to reach them. Judging a person without fully knowing about them doesn't solve anything.

And EP for your views, please create a new thread... hijacking other threads is not good at all.

(July 14, 2015 at 1:46 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 1:40 am)whateverist Wrote: Evil?  What is that?

I understand "vile" and other words of disapproval, but what makes a thing evil?

Evil, as per google:
profoundly immoral and malevolent.

Acts or persons?

(July 14, 2015 at 1:59 am)whateverist Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 1:46 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: Evil, as per google:
profoundly immoral and malevolent.

Acts or persons?

That's for you to decide. We were talking about beliefs however.

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(July 14, 2015 at 1:54 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 1:07 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

---

---

I count myself amongst those who respect theists who don't break the rules.

Nevertheless,

I find it counterproductive to be too lenient as to one's stated beliefs if they happen to be wrong and ultimately evil, be it that they know it, or not-- as is more often[universally, really] the case. If one supports the Catholic Church, for example, I will judge that person partly on that and nothing will stiffle my criticism in that direction, regardless of how well one comports himself.

Reject the belief not the believer EP. I have encountered many believers outside here associated with really bad institutions but it's mostly because they were raised that way and didn't encounter real unbiased knowledge till a very later stage in their lives. So they are not the ones at fault, and if they are willing to discuss things openly, then what's the harm? Sure they might have a hidden agenda or what not, but it is only through a good discussion that we may hope to reach them. Judging a person without fully knowing about them doesn't solve anything.

And EP for your views, please create a new thread... hijacking other threads is not good at all.

How come you think I should create a new thread for my views yet feel comfortable stating yours? How is that even possible - to comment on something without stating your views? Do you propose that we should instead communicate via threads instead of simple posts every time we have to add something?


The belief is non-existent outside of the believers' minds. Belief defines them, both in action and in thought. I think it important to aknowledge this.

They may not be 'the ones at fault', but they are at fault nevertheless. Choosing to pretend it is not so won't resolve a thing. If you don't confront stupid beliefs they will end up consuming you.

I never judge a person without knowing them. I only judge them based on what I know about them, and only about that.

(July 14, 2015 at 2:08 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: ....
...
The belief is non-existent outside of the believers' minds. Belief defines them, both in action and in thought. I think it important to aknowledge this.

They may not be 'the ones at fault', but they are at fault nevertheless. Choosing to pretend it is not so won't resolve a thing. If you don't confront stupid beliefs they will end up consuming you.

I never judge a person without knowing them. I only judge them based on what I know about them, and only about that.

Confronting beliefs doesn't involve hating on the believer and thereby alienating them, instead it helps to calmly discuss things. Let's say CL is hiding her true self, what do you propose we do about it?

(July 14, 2015 at 2:32 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 2:08 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: ....
...
The belief is non-existent outside of the believers' minds. Belief defines them, both in action and in thought. I think it important to aknowledge this.

They may not be 'the ones at fault', but they are at fault nevertheless. Choosing to pretend it is not so won't resolve a thing. If you don't confront stupid beliefs they will end up consuming you.

I never judge a person without knowing them. I only judge them based on what I know about them, and only about that.

Confronting beliefs doesn't involve hating on the believer and thereby alienating them, instead it helps to calmly discuss things. Let's say CL is hiding her true self, what do you propose we do about it?

I don't advocate hate. I advocate honest discussion. When that fails I'll have to carry a stick. We're a long way from that though.

(July 13, 2015 at 5:31 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: What are your reasons for being here? Are you trying to convince atheists of the existence of God?

Absolutely. But to be more realistic, I'm here to provide information that folks might find helpful along their journey to God.

The real work of conversion is done by the Holy Spirit.