Rapture September 2015

[Cyberman]

Two xtians. One cup.

[professor]

I don't care how many non Catholics agree with the Vatican.
Maybe they should try to read the words in Greek, where it is obvious Jesus said Pete is a little stone and upon this Rock (like Gibraltar) - the statement of Peter that Jesus is the Christ (that Jesus would build His Church upon).  
That is all I am going to say on the topic.
 
I do not argue with Catholics.
You can have all the fake sacrifice ceremonies (the Mass) you want.  
Only what God did HIMSELF and a real relationship with the living God will save you.

The day is going to come when the Christians dwelling where they ought not, are going to hear the words,
"Come out of her My people- that you share not in her punishment".
Spiritual Roman Babylon is coming down.
 Turn away and leave now.

As for the Rapture- it is just like Enoch who believed God to not see death, he left by faith.
You can believe the lies of Romanian and stay here for Obama and Francis's wicked murderous rule,
 or you can repent and pray to receive the truth.
Once the Catching Away happens- you are stuck here, don't wait long to do it.

[Randy Carson]

I don't care how many non Catholics agree with the Vatican.
Maybe they should try to read the words in Greek, where it is obvious Jesus said Pete is a little stone and upon this Rock (like Gibraltar) - the statement of Peter that Jesus is the Christ (that Jesus would build His Church upon).  
That is all I am going to say on the topic.

Good. Then you can read and learn instead.

In Mt. 16:18, Jesus identifies Himself as the builder - not the foundation.

And since He spoke Aramaic, what he actually said was, "You are kepha and on this kepha...". There was no distinction between "little stone" and "big rock".

Why does this matter?

Donald A. Carson (Baptist)

“On the basis of the distinction between 'petros' . . . and 'petra' . . . , many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Peter is a mere 'stone,' it is alleged; but Jesus himself is the 'rock' . . . Others adopt some other distinction . . . Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . The Greek makes the distinction between 'petros' and 'petra' simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine 'petra' could not very well serve as a masculine name . . . Had Matthew wanted to say no more than that Peter was a stone in contrast with Jesus the Rock, the more common word would have been 'lithos' ('stone' of almost any size). Then there would have been no pun - and that is just the point! . . . In this passage Jesus is the builder of the church and it would be a strange mixture of metaphors that also sees him within the same clauses as its foundation . . .” (Expositor's Bible Commentary, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984], vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke (Matthew: D.A. Carson), 368)

"The word Peter petros, meaning 'rock,' (Gk 4377) is masculine, and in Jesus' follow-up statement he uses the feminine word petra (Gk 4376). On the basis of this change, many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretations, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter." (Carson, Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary [Zondervan, 1994], volume 2, page 78, as cited in Butler/Dahlgren/Hess, page 18)

Oscar Cullman (Lutheran)

"The obvious pun which has made its way into the Gk. text as well suggests a material identity between petra and petros, the more so as it is impossible to differentiate strictly between the meanings of the two words. On the other hand, only the fairly assured Aramaic original of the saying enables us to assert with confidence the formal and material identity between petra and petros: petra = Kepha = petros....Since Peter, the rock of the Church, is thus given by Christ Himself, the master of the house (Is. 22:22; Rev. 3:7), the keys of the kingdom of heaven, he is the human mediator of the resurrection, and he has the task of admitting the people of God into the kingdom of the resurrection...The idea of the Reformers that He is referring to the faith of Peter is quite inconceivable in view of the probably different setting of the story...For there is no reference here to the faith of Peter. Rather, the parallelism of 'thou art Rock' and 'on this rock I will build' shows that the second rock can only be the same as the first. It is thus evident that Jesus is referring to Peter, to whom He has given the name Rock. He appoints Peter, the impulsive, enthusiastic, but not persevering man in the circle, to be the foundation of His ecclesia. To this extent Roman Catholic exegesis is right and all Protestant attempts to evade this interpretation are to be rejected." (Cullmann, article on "Rock" (petros, petra) trans. and ed. by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament [Eerdmans Publishing, 1968], volume 6, page 98, 107, 108)


Do you need more? Cause I'm just dying to quote the other 20+ scholars whose books and Bible commentaries you may have on your own bookshelves...

[abaris]

[Randy Carson]

I do not argue with Catholics.

Understandably.

You can have all the fake sacrifice ceremonies (the Mass) you want.  

Why would we do that when we can do the same thing that Jesus did at the last supper (and foretold in John 6) instead?

Only what God did HIMSELF and a real relationship with the living God will save you.

Amen. We agree on this.

[Randy Carson]

The day is going to come when the Christians dwelling where they ought not, are going to hear the words,
"Come out of her My people- that you share not in her punishment".
Spiritual Roman Babylon is coming down.
 Turn away and leave now.

As for the Rapture- it is just like Enoch who believed God to not see death, he left by faith.
You can believe the lies of Romanian and stay here for Obama and Francis's wicked murderous rule,
 or you can repent and pray to receive the truth.
Once the Catching Away happens- you are stuck here, don't wait long to do it.

In October, let's begin discussing why you need to become Catholic in more detail, okay?

[professor]

Too late Randy, if I am here, with this same body, in October-
I already gave notice in the forum that it is bye bye time for me.
Users who dislike me will get their wish.
It has been interesting, frequently fun and I appreciate the openness of AF (good job Tiberius and friends).
If the deluge of signs and clues are duds, my time limit for looking stupid is over Oct first.

On the other hand, I hear some of us are coming back to minister in the Great Tribulation after we are translated, and if that is the case, I plan on making house calls.
 You guys are on my list.

[Jenny A]

The day is going to come when the Christians dwelling where they ought not, are going to hear the words,
"Come out of her My people- that you share not in her punishment".
Spiritual Roman Babylon is coming down.
 Turn away and leave now.

As for the Rapture- it is just like Enoch who believed God to not see death, he left by faith.
You can believe the lies of Romanian and stay here for Obama and Francis's wicked murderous rule,
 or you can repent and pray to receive the truth.
Once the Catching Away happens- you are stuck here, don't wait long to do it.

In October, let's begin discussing why you need to become Catholic in more detail, okay?

When looking at evidence for belief, I see little difference between you and the professor Randy.  The only difference is the professor believes in things that can be checked in the near term.

[Randy Carson]

Too late Randy, if I am here, with this same body, in October-
I already gave notice in the forum that it is bye bye time for me.
Users who dislike me will get their wish.
It has been interesting, frequently fun and I appreciate the openness of AF (good job Tiberius and friends).
If the deluge of signs and clues are duds, my time limit for looking stupid is over Oct first.

On the other hand, I hear some of us are coming back to minister in the Great Tribulation after we are translated, and if that is the case, I plan on making house calls.
 You guys are on my list.

Cool.

However, don't confuse me the the atheists here who don't like you. As a brother in the Lord, I'm just seeking to give you some of that correction the Bible speaks of...after all, we ARE supposed to judge those in the Church, aren't we? (cf. 1 Cor. 5:12-13)

Now seriously, if you ARE still here in October, stop by, and we can begin setting your faith on the right path. Martin Luther got more than a few things wrong...

[Randy Carson]

In October, let's begin discussing why you need to become Catholic in more detail, okay?

When looking at evidence for belief, I see little difference between you and the professor Randy.  The only difference is the professor believes in things that can be checked in the near term.

Your judgment is superficial, Jenny. You are not looking very deeply.

But regarding evidence for belief, are you referring to direct evidence or indirect evidence?