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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 8:20 pm
(November 8, 2010 at 7:26 pm)Tiberius Wrote: The point is Rwandrall, somebody being hurt by what someone has said isn't grounds for labelling them a "victim" in the criminal sense of the word. If someone makes up a story about a famous celebrity, that celebrity has the right to sue them for libel, since their image has been hurt. However, it doesn't give any of their fans the right to seek damages, even if they were hurt by what was said. The same applies to blasphemy; any number of God's "fans" can be hurt by blasphemy, but they aren't the victims of it...God is.
Actually it is grounds for labelling them "victims", for example using racist slurs against someone is a criminal offense. To theists, insulting their God is like insulting who they are, what they stand for, the very core of their being. In that sense, they are victims. If you think that when insulting God they do not take it personally as an offense, you don't understand theists.
Also, denying the Holocaust is actually an offense that can give you jail time, for the precise reason that it tarnishes the memory of those who died. It does not offend people personally, but it is still a crime.
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 8:32 pm
You are missing the point completely. Even if saying racist slurs or denying the Holocaust were crimes in my country (UK), they would have very specific criteria for who the victims are.
Denying the Holocaust is a victimless crime, since it has no specific victim (i.e. nobody other than the state can press charges). Hitting someone is a crime that has a very specific victim: the person being hit. Both are crimes, but the distinction between victim and victimless is important.
If blasphemy was still banned in the UK, it would be a crime (I'm not arguing it wouldn't be), but the only possible victim would be God, since blasphemous statements are aimed at God. The point of the joke is that atheists don't believe in God, making blasphemy a victimless crime.
One can be a victim in the sense that someone can be hurt, or affected by an action, or one can be a victim in the criminal sense of the word, which is what we are talking about here (hence "victimless crime").
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Quote:Also, denying the Holocaust is actually an offense that can give you jail time,
Actually, that is an excellent example of a bad law. As far as I know, it only applies in Germany but it is still bullshit.
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 9:20 pm
(November 8, 2010 at 8:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Actually, that is an excellent example of a bad law. As far as I know, it only applies in Germany but it is still bullshit.
Imagine, if they implemented a law that gave prison to people that deny facts... They would have to lock up all theists, starting by the creationists...
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 10:03 pm
Blasphemy may be the crux of the Christian agenda where non believers are shown to be immoral. The statement "victimless crime" emphasises this. I'm gonna promote the phrase for local churches to use.
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Just remember, Frods: Blasphemy is in the hands of the stone-thrower.
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 8, 2010 at 10:16 pm
No it's just between you and God min  (...and of course the teenagers on this forum)
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 9, 2010 at 9:52 am
Sorry ....late to this thread but.....
Found ourselves a new chew toy???
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 9, 2010 at 9:54 am
(This post was last modified: November 9, 2010 at 9:56 am by Anomalocaris.)
(November 8, 2010 at 10:16 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No it's just between you and God min (...and of course the teenagers on this forum)
In that case you should butt out? 
(November 9, 2010 at 9:52 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Sorry ....late to this thread but.....
Found ourselves a new chew toy???
Need a more chewy chew toy.
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RE: 'Blasphemy is a victimless crime' is utter arrogance
November 9, 2010 at 10:03 am
(November 9, 2010 at 9:54 am)Chuck Wrote: (November 9, 2010 at 9:52 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Sorry ....late to this thread but.....
Found ourselves a new chew toy??? Need a more chewy chew toy.
Sorry can't help there mate..... have you tried the local catatonic church??? How about the blasphemists?? morons??? always good for a chew is the jehovabas perverts.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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