islam is dying out

[Regina]

I think most holy wars have been brought about by Christianity and Islam tbh. Part of why the world is so fucked up is because neither of these religions have a tolerant "live and let live" mentality about them. A core tenet of either faith is proselytism, and that has been carried out violently at many points throughout history. This is why I can't take anyone seriously who wants to talk about "tolerating Islam" or "tolerating Christianity". You give either of these religions an inch, they'll take a mile, and your head along with that mile.

You just don't seem to see this in other religions either. We haven't had East and South Asians blowing eachother up over whether Hinduism, Buddhism or Sikhism is the supreme religion. There doesn't appear to have been this "my way or to the gallows" culture within Pagan societies either. Any religious war will have at least one (and usually both) Christianity and Islam at the centre of it. In the last century alone, Islam has come into conflict with Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, itself, and although not a religion, atheism.

Islam is like a naughty school child. There's two sides to every story sure, but when that one child is always at the centre of the trouble, it says more about that one child than the rest of the class.

[WinterHold]

Yeauxleaux

The world is fucked because of muslims and christians ?

really ?

I remember that the greatest war ever happened (the dropped millions dead and literally ruined the world for good) was a world war fought between secular powers that "keep morals away from politics).

I remember that the world's first weapon of mas distruction (atomic bombs) were developed and designed by seculars who disobeyed every word told by the bible and the Quran regarding "mass killing of innocent lives"; a type of weapon that can only be made by people who have no fear of a hell of post death judgement.

Savor the double standards, and the utter ignorance please. Learn true history, to truly know who ruined the world.

and btw..the secular economic system is so lovely, isn't it ? printing fake money (like the what the federal reserve is doing), and all of that..

And remember my words : God never forgets. He forgives, but never forgets..atomic weapons..yah.

[Regina]

Right yes, because Nazi Germany was so secular, making a God out of Hitler. Same for Communist Russia with Stalin. The USA is not a secular country in practice either, however much it loves to claim it is, neither is The UK technically. The only truly secular country involved in The World Wars was France, and France only became involved in either because it was pretty much dragged in. The World Wars were not "secular" wars, they were wars brought about by religious-like nationalism.

And my point still stands that where there is religious conflict (I never said all wars, I said "holy wars"), then 99 times out of 100 you can expect at least one, and often more than one, of the Abrahamic Messianic religions to be at the centre of it. If you hear something in the news about a person being killed for offending religious sensibilities, we know which religion the butthurt killer belonged to before they even say it. So you can get off your moral high-horse because that particular religion is yours. If you gave as much of a shit about innocent people getting squashed by your religion as you appear to do about the atomic bomb, you could stop fundamentalism dead in it's tracks. Instead you're arguing with me about my alleged "double standards", laughable.

[WinterHold]

Name the religion Nazi-Germany used to invoke in ruling; now answer that with an honest, serious & realistic academic answer, that if you wanted me to rule your answer as "legit". That's right; NONE.

So there was a new religion in Germany that we're not aware of, that is called "hitler-worshiping" ? you can't be serious.
In practice, ALL the countries since WW2 are secular (fully), since religion is not used in decision making or whatsoever. The U.S played secularism all along, when it favored its interest above Japan's children (nuking it to entitle itself as a superpower); allying itself with Britain to inherit its empire (countries rich in oil like Saudi Arabia), could anything by more secular ? Interest first..

Religious-Like nationalism ? yes it is religious-like. But it is not RELIGION. Remember ? many atheists are nationalists themselves. I'm against any type on nationalism anyways, since it leads to nothing but unilateralism. You can't be a nationalist without being a secular after all; and being a secular means, that when interest demands, engage unilateralism even if the world was burnt to crisp.

However, your point doesn't stand. Simply, believers in the Abrahamic faiths are too much; including Muslims, Christians & Jews. That's why in many wars, you see them. But come on, the wars of Rome (which dominated history) were fought with Abrahamic faiths at the center ?

But when the Mongols attack Asians, who HAPPEN to believe in an Abrahamic faith like Islam, you can't be serious in putting the faith at the center don't you ?

"Something In The News" ? you don't mean the propaganda poop the White House is throwing at you to swallow don't you ? "ze muslims"; that kind of media ? sadly, they don't tell you about the dirty games the west plays in the Middle East for oil; either.

They never show you this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8

Come on man..this media you mean ?

For god's sake..

[jenny1972]

Christians have stopped stoning women.  Muslims have not.  It's pretty simple.  Sure there's muslims who don't agree with stoning women. Just as there's Christians who aren't anti-gay.  That doesn't make Christians pro-gay though.

if we had a theocracy instead of a secular government western culture would be much much different and there would still be public stonings

[The Grand Nudger]

Name the religion Nazi-Germany used to invoke in ruling; now answer that with an honest, serious & realistic academic answer, that if you wanted me to rule your answer as "legit". That's right; NONE.

Initially they appealed to their traditional, christian, values.  However, a more "arian" cult was being formulated and proposed.  By and large this fizzled out - but, had the Reich not been defeated it was to be the state religion.  

So there was a new religion in Germany that we're not aware of, that is called "hitler-worshiping" ? you can't be serious.

We're very well aware of the religious sensibilities of the party....we are also very well aware of the cult of personality which catapulted Hitler to power.  

In practice, ALL the countries since WW2 are secular (fully), since religion is not used in decision making or whatsoever. The U.S played secularism all along, when it favored its interest above Japan's children (nuking it to entitle itself as a superpower);

We nuked japan in order to solve two dilemmas.  One, we expected a much larger loss of life from our continued invasion than was expected (or achieved) by dropping the bombs...and two, no american president could have- at that time, with that constituency, explained to the american people after successfully invading japan that he declined to use a tool that would have averted further loss of american lives while achieving the same goal.

allying itself with Britain to inherit its empire (countries rich in oil like Saudi Arabia), could anything by more secular ? Interest first..

This was not reason we allied with them, nor did we inherit their empire.  

Religious-Like nationalism ? yes it is religious-like. But it is not RELIGION. Remember ? many atheists are nationalists themselves. I'm against any type on nationalism anyways, since it leads to nothing but unilateralism. You can't be a nationalist without being a secular after all; and being a secular means, that when interest demands, engage unilateralism even if the world was burnt to crisp.

A Suadi Nationalist has to be a secularist, eh?  

However, your point doesn't stand. Simply, believers in the Abrahamic faiths are too much; including Muslims, Christians & Jews. That's why in many wars, you see them. But come on, the wars of Rome (which dominated history) were fought with Abrahamic faiths at the center ?

You realize that the world has Rome to thank for christianity, right?  I'm not sure why you would pick Rome....you could've picked Greece or something.....

But when the Mongols attack Asians, who HAPPEN to believe in an Abrahamic faith like Islam, you can't be serious in putting the faith at the center don't you ?

The western worlds defense against the mongols was sold as a defense of christendom.  This -was- central.  I expect that muslims had similar sentiments?

[WinterHold]

Initially they appealed to their traditional, christian, values.  However, a more "arian" cult was being formulated and proposed.  By and large this fizzled out - but, had the Reich not been defeated it was to be the state religion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

Anti-Church radicals included Hitler's Personal Secretary Martin Bormann, Minister for Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, Neo-Pagan Nazi Philosopher Alfred Rosenberg, and Neo-Pagan Occultist Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler.

Hitler was surrounded by "anti-church" fellas...

We're very well aware of the religious sensibilities of the party....we are also very well aware of the cult of personality which catapulted Hitler to power. 

When you don't have a God, you turn to people to worship.

We nuked japan in order to solve two dilemmas.

Nobody will spit such a sentence, but a psychopath killer. Disgusting.

This was not reason we allied with them, nor did we inherit their empire. 

Actually it did. Revise the map. From israel, to the sauds, ..revise the cold war. No Rythem, America did.

A Suadi Nationalist has to be a secularist, eh? 

Yes ?
Oah, you believe Saudi Arabia is religious, right ?

Saudi Arabia "uses" religion to "satisfy" its interests; and throw it out of the window when there's no interest. Talking about interests; Saudia is an "izlamic country"; right Rythem ? then they should follow Izlam (according to your mentality); right Rythem ?

Rythem tell me, are saudi banks putting an interest on loans (aka Reba) or not ?

Make my day please ; but if you answer correctly; it's enough to close this point forever.

You realize that the world has Rome to thank for christianity, right?  I'm not sure why you would pick Rome....you could've picked Greece or something.....

Especially Rome. The Empire fought for its own bloodline after all; it wasn't for Christianity. Especially the early centuries.

Take this example : Rome fights Persia over some corn fields (shakira dances in the background)..some Roman soldiers are Christian, some persian soldiers worship a heathen God. Throwing Christianity at the center would be ignorant and unfair.

Pick greece if it suits you..

The western worlds defense against the mongols was sold as a defense of christendom.  This -was- central.  I expect that muslims had similar sentiments?

Exactly like the American invasion of Iraq :





Ya know, it's such a good tactic to use to get people "warmed up".

Anyhow, back to secularism, a side note, poor Bush is a dork but he tries to play seculairsm here : you see he tries to use Christianity to get the people warmed up (to satisfy his interest to get the people to war), then he french kissed abdullah al-saud even though he's "supposedly" a muslim:



But then again..what a dork he can't act !
Politics is an art..after all, with such mentality Rythem (not being able to see behind closed doors), you'll never know how the world works..

The world is secular since WW2. even saudi arabia. What differs, is who is a mercenary dog and who is a sovereign independent leader.

like you said, in times of war YOU NUKE.
like the sauds chop heads, in times of need YOU CHOP HEADS.

Then blame it on Islam, Christianity, Marylin Manson, whoever.
Anything to make the cycle turn

[WinterHold]

Yes Rythem, about the Sauds :

http://nypost.com/2015/10/21/saudi-princ...ce-demand/

[The Grand Nudger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

Yes, please....read that link, rather than just posting it.  What, in that link....argues with anything you quoted me on?  

---

In 1933, prior to the annexation of Austria into Germany, the population of Germany was approximately 67% Protestant and 33% Catholic.[1] A census in May 1939, six years into the Nazi era[2] and incorporating the annexation of mostly Catholic Austria into Germany, indicates that 54% considered themselves Protestant (including non-denominational Christians), 40% Catholic, 3.5% self-identified as "gottgläubig" (lit. "believers in god", often described as predominately creationist and deistic[3]), and 1.5% as non-religious.

Hitler never portrayed himself and the Nazi movement to the German people as outspoken proponents of atheism, but rather as faithful Christians.[24][25] He publicly declared: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian."

---

.........?

There is even a wonderful link to the National Reich Church proposal -within- that link.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reich_Church

Your chosen link, your evidence.....establishes my point.  Thank you.  Next time..read the fucking things you link.

Now, why would it take a sociopath to correct you on your misunderstandings of why we nuked japan?  You clearly didn't know why, now you do.  You may not agree with nuking japan, I may not agree with nuking japan...but that has nothing to do why the US, in WW2, nuked Japan......We did it because we could, because the alternatives were worse, and because we could not justify choosing those alternatives to our populace.  

It was actually a pretty weighty decision - a great deal has been written about it.  That you had a misunderstanding has nothing to do with the availability of knowledge..if you wanted to know better...you would know better - you just don't.  

Actually it did. Revise the map. From israel, to the sauds, ..revise the cold war. No Rythem, America did.

We had our own empire, you realize?    

Yes ?
Oah, you believe Saudi Arabia is religious, right ? 

I don't believe it, they declare it.  End of.  

Saudi Arabia "uses" religion to "satisfy" its interests; and throw it out of the window when there's no interest. Talking about interests; Saudia is an "izlamic country"; right Rythem ? then they should follow Izlam (according to your mentality); right Rythem ?

Rythem tell me, are saudi banks putting an interest on loans (aka Reba) or not ?

Make my day please ; but if you answer correctly; it's enough to close this point forever. 

You think that any of this is a rebuttal of my position?  I don't have a dog in the race..when it comes to your little internal muslim disputes...I don't know why you'd ask me who's being more or less muslim.  If you have a problem with them taking interest on loans.....take it up with them?

Take this example : Rome fights Persia over some corn fields (shakira dances in the background)..some Roman soldiers are Christian, some persian soldiers worship a heathen God. Throwing Christianity at the center would be ignorant and unfair.

If you have a problem with people throwing their religions into the center of shit where it might not belong.....the problem isn't with me..you realize?  I'm not the one who decided to throw their religions to the center......they are.  

The western worlds defense against the mongols was sold as a defense of christendom.  This -was- central.  I expect that muslims had similar sentiments?

Exactly like the American invasion of Iraq :


Ya know, it's such a good tactic to use to get people "warmed up".

.....uh....yeah, apparently it is - then and now?  Is there some disagreement between us here?  

Anyhow, back to secularism, a side note, poor Bush is a dork but he tries to play seculairsm here : you see he tries to use Christianity to get the people warmed up (to satisfy his interest to get the people to war), then he french kissed abdullah al-saud even though he's "supposedly" a muslim:


But then again..what a dork he can't act !
Politics is an art..after all, with such mentality Rythem (not being able to see behind closed doors), you'll never know how the world works..

Things you've posted pictures to, on the internet...are "behind closed doors"?  Doesn't seem to be behind closed anything......

The world is secular since WW2. even saudi arabia. What differs, is who is a mercenary dog and who is a sovereign independent leader. 

ISIS?

like you said, in times of war YOU NUKE.

-but that's not what I said...soo........?

like the sauds chop heads, in times of need YOU CHOP HEADS.

Allah hu akbar! (pass the salt)

Then blame it on Islam, Christianity, Marylin Manson, whoever.
Anything to make the cycle turn

I'm not the one blaming it on their religions.  They're blaming it on their religions.........you appear to have some sort of disagreement, with them...as to who's more muslimy. You -both- look pretty muslimy, to me.  You're both -more- muslimy than me, we can say that at the very least.  They say they do "x" for islam...you disagree.  Too bad, they're the ones doing it, that you wouldn't do it in your islam is irrelevant as to why they would do it in their islam.

[miaharun]

Since we are talking about Islam could someone elaborate what exactly "Halal" is.