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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:29 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:03 am)drfuzzy Wrote: (October 31, 2015 at 11:54 pm)Delicate Wrote: Article: The New Philistinism
The New Atheist writers are supremely self-confident in their ability to dispatch opponents with a sarcastic quip or two. And they show no evidence whatsoever of knowing what they are talking about.
Great article. Worth reading to get an idea of what a joke so many atheist clergy are.
Ok. I read it.
You have to start with the basis that this is religious rhetoric. It is desperate to cast aspersions upon any atheist claim - - and the whole article has no real evidence, scientific or sociological, to back up those claims. It was clearly written by a preacher-type, intent upon drowning you in WORDS that have no real-world substance.
An early example of the nonintellectual put-downs contained in this article: "You will find similar howlers throughout the works of the other New Atheists." -- They're just tossing out playground insults. They can't even specify what they find amusing.
This is followed by a slam on Dawkins and Dennett. Philosopher and prominent Darwinian Michael Ruse has said that Dawkins’s book made him “ashamed to be an atheist” and that Dennett’s book is “really bad and not worthy of [him].” They go on to say that Thomas Nagel described Dawkins' work as "particularly weak". The critiques get worse from there, but don't give ANY EXAMPLES for their vitriol. Not one.
They go on to critique the spoofs, without even seeming to realize that they are dealing with satire:
“Most of us happily disavow fairies, astrology and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, without first immersing ourselves in books of Pastafarian theology.” Yet whether the work of Aquinas, Leibniz, et al., is really comparable to “Leprechology” or “Pastafarianism” in the first place is precisely what is in question—and precisely what people who actually know something about Aquinas, Leibniz, et al., know to be a suggestion that is simply too stupid for words.
Good grief. Don't they even know that "Pastafarianism" is a satirical attempt to show what belief looks like to non-believers?
No, seriously. I worked my way through Edward Feser's ridiculous word-salad article.
It's just a moronic rant, filled with theological word-salad designed to shut nay-sayers up. The problem with his response is, that modern society needs more than word-salad, scorn, and threats. If you can't offer a critique without even referencing what you're critiquing, your work is invalid.
Kudos for the effort. I can tell you tried.
I mean I disagree with at least some of your conclusions, but at least you made an effort, which is more than most other atheists here are doing.
And your effort counts for a lot of intellectual honesty on your part. It shows you have the ability to actually look at what theists are saying, as opposed to rejecting them without listening.
(November 1, 2015 at 1:03 am)robvalue Wrote: The article is just saying some atheists make bad arguments. It's saying it over and over.
It's treating a group of people, "new atheists" as a hive mind who all do and say the same kind of thing.
It's also trying to imply that all atheists make bad arguments, by association with this group. This is all very dishonest.
Even if there are a subgroup of atheists who go around making bad arguments, so what? We're not an organisation. I'm not responsible for what other atheists do.
You say I have dogma. Would you like to tell me what that dogma is?
Same here, really. I mean at least you're trying. Kudos for that.
As for the dogma, it's the implied dogma that anything that criticizes anything about atheism is wrong or false. That would be the only explanation for why atheists dismiss critiques of atheism before having heard them.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:32 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 1:34 am by robvalue.)
What? The first thing I said is that some atheists do make bad arguments. I was agreeing with the article, without having to go into specifics. What I don't agree with is the attempt to poison all atheists by association with these bad arguments.
An article doesn't have to be 100% true or 100% false. That is a false dichotomy.
If that's not the intention, then I say again, so what? Of course some atheists make bad arguments.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:35 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:25 am)Thena323 Wrote: (November 1, 2015 at 12:15 am)Delicate Wrote: I find that's a myth. Many atheists like to claim to be ex-Christians, but they don't have even the basic rudimentary knowledge of religion and end up attacking strawmen.
As the rest of the article will illustrate quite amusingly.
Right. 'Cause if they had adequate knowledge, they'd believe wouldn't they?
And you can't fathom that, because your deep abiding for God and Jesus is just so powerful, so life-affirming, so juicy.
You're priceless.
I'm priceless, I'm juicy, but I can also tell you're more than just a moissanite.
But that's not the point. The point is you're great at fighting strawmen. Because I don't think if they had adequate knowledge they'd believe.
Rather, I believe if they had adequate knowledge, their rejection of theism would be intelligent.
As it is, the average atheist on this forum sound like a toddler throwing tantrums.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:37 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:32 am)robvalue Wrote: What? The first thing I said is that some atheists do make bad arguments. I was agreeing with the article, without having to go into specifics. What I don't agree with is the attempt to poison all atheists by association with these bad arguments.
An article doesn't have to be 100% true or 100% false. That is a false dichotomy.
If that's not the intention, then I say again, so what? Of course some atheists make bad arguments.
On this forum, 99% of atheists make bad arguments.
But that was far from the point of the essay. Your perceived repetition is just a result of you skimming the article poorly.
Which is a shame. PS- One of these days I'll refute the stuff on your website. Hope you're game.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:38 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:35 am)Delicate Wrote: As it is, the average atheist on this forum sound like a toddler throwing tantrums.
Sure you're not projecting?
lol
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:41 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 1:46 am by robvalue.)
Delicate: How about you tell me what you think the point of the article is then please? I can't read your mind.
You think that this forum is full of bad arguments. That doesn't make you right.
You're very welcome to argue against anything on my website. I have a thread here in which I accept any (reasonable) challenge, as long as people remain civil.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:46 am
Quote: The New Atheist writers are supremely self-confident in their ability to dispatch opponents with a sarcastic quip or two.
The problem with religitards is that they are too fucking stupid to know that they have been dispatched. They just cling to their fairy tales even harder.
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:51 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Delicate: How about you tell me what you think the point of the article is then please? I can't read your mind.
You think that this forum is full of bad arguments. That doesn't make you right.
You're very welcome to argue against anything on my website. I have a thread here in which I accept any (reasonable) challenge, as long as people remain civil.
No point in me telling you if you can't read it. And no point in me telling you to read it, since you don't want to. So either way, let's leave it at that.
And I think I just might participate in that thread.
But why keep it civil? I mean, civility is not expected anywhere else on this forum, right?
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:52 am
(November 1, 2015 at 1:37 am)Delicate Wrote: On this forum, 99% of atheists make bad arguments.
I'm gonna go ahead and challenge this as an untrue assertion made without research and without basis. If your response is "Just look around, all these arguments are evidence of that claim," or any other similar dodge, then I'm going to recognize that as you conceding my point.
To back up your assertion, I will need to see some extensive and well-documented research into the posting habits of the people on this forum, as well as a good, objective basis for judging how "bad" an argument is. If you can't produce these things, you cannot claim the above quote as anything other than your baseless opinion.
You're probably about to concede the point, and you will probably insist otherwise, but let's see what happens. Your move.
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)
Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 1, 2015 at 1:53 am
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2015 at 1:54 am by robvalue.)
(November 1, 2015 at 1:51 am)Delicate Wrote: (November 1, 2015 at 1:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Delicate: How about you tell me what you think the point of the article is then please? I can't read your mind.
You think that this forum is full of bad arguments. That doesn't make you right.
You're very welcome to argue against anything on my website. I have a thread here in which I accept any (reasonable) challenge, as long as people remain civil.
No point in me telling you if you can't read it. And no point in me telling you to read it, since you don't want to. So either way, let's leave it at that.
And I think I just might participate in that thread.
But why keep it civil? I mean, civility is not expected anywhere else on this forum, right?
I can read it just fine. Like I say, I can't read your mind. How can I know what point you think it's making? If you can't or won't put it into your own words, then we're done.
You don't have to be civil. But I will ignore you if you are not.
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