Strict gun control in france.

[Divinity]

Yeah, those crappy emotional arguments like "School children shouldn't be afraid to go to school because some teenagers decided to shoot the place up." I mean that's fucking stupid to say "EMOTIONAL ARGUMENTS! OMG GUN CONTROL DID NOT STOP THE PARIS ATTACKS!" Well guess the fuck what? If there hadn't been any fucking gun control in the country, the people of France might have to be fucking worried about the same stupid fucking mass shootings we have in this country in addition to their terrorist attack.

You might as well not even call gun nuts "gun" nuts, they're just fucking nuts. Period. Every time there is a mass shooting in the United States, it's been by someone who would NOT NORMALLY HAVE ACCESS TO A FUCKING ARMORY OF WEAPONS AND FUNDING THAT ONLY TERRORISTS HAVE.

Do you really fucking think that the Sandy Hook Shooter had the connections and money to buy a fucking gun on the black market? I guess it's an emotional argument to say that gun control would FUCKING REDUCE the number of mass shootings in this country significantly. I guess it's an emotional argument to say that with gun control we could have prevented many of the tragedies we see in our country.

On the other side you have fucking fantastic logic like "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." Fuck that. Once the bad guy has the gun, you're not going to stop him shit-for-brains. The fucking idea is to stop the stupid fucker and other stupid fuckers from getting guns in the first place. And you know what? It would fucking work because most people in this country aren't members of an international terrorist organization that has access to military hardware. It's that fucking simple. Really, if you want to talk emotional arguments it's you ammosexuals that have the emotional arguments. Because you love your guns and don't want them taken away. You have this stupid fucking hero fantasy that you're going to be able to save the day with your handgun. It's your wet dream to be able to shoot someone and still be called a hero, but without going to war because you know you won't get the recognition that you want so fucking bad.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's absolutely okay to be concerned about school shootings.  If we focus on those school shootings, though, we are ignoring our gun problem...which is definitely -not- school shootings, or even mass shootings. The more things we focus on that will -not- solve our gun problem, the more effort we spend on things that will -not- solve our gun problem....the longer we'll -have- a gun problem.

It'll keep getting politicians their jobs though, and it'll keep the spigot of appropriations open for them when they get there.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I wish Americans would stop making threads about gun control at every opportunity.

It's easier than examining the root causes of violence.

What other country is so obsessed with a single subject? There are more gun threads started on forums with Americans than threads about cars, sex, computers or video games.

That right there tells you that America has a problem with guns in one form or another.

[The Grand Nudger]

It tells you we have a problem with the possibility of an erosion of our rights based upon shitty logic and political opportunism.  Just a small thing to you, I know..............I know............

[I_am_not_mafia]

It tells you we have a problem with the possibility of an erosion of our rights based upon shitty logic and political opportunism.  Just a small thing to you, I know..............I know............

I would believe that was the case if all the other civil rights were being mentioned alongside guns. It's not like there has not been plenty to talk about since 911. But the focus is only ever on guns.

[CapnAwesome]

It tells you we have a problem with the possibility of an erosion of our rights based upon shitty logic and political opportunism.  Just a small thing to you, I know..............I know............

I would believe that was the case if all the other civil rights were being mentioned alongside guns. It's not like there has not been plenty to talk about since 911. But the focus is only ever on guns.

That seems like an exaggeration to me.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're clearly not looking for what you don't wish to see then.  We do bitch endlessly about our increasingly fascist police state.  That said fascist police state is beginning to think, and convince the public,  that they should be the only ones with guns........is made even more disturbing, in that context.  Here's a parralel situation, that might bring that closer to home for you.  The US likes to poo-poo nuclear states, and prevent states from up-arming, while maintaining a massive nuclear arsenal itself.  I would assume that this disturbs you, as it disturbs me, and as our changing attitude toward gun ownership disturbs me.

[I_am_not_mafia]

You're clearly not looking for what you don't wish to see then.  We do bitch endlessly about our increasingly fascist police state.  That said fascist police state is beginning to think, and convince the public,  that they should be the only ones with guns........is made even more disturbing, in that context.  Here's a parralel situation, that might bring that closer to home for you.  The US likes to poo-poo nuclear states, and prevent states from up-arming, while maintaining a massive nuclear arsenal itself.  I would assume that this disturbs you, as it disturbs me, and as our changing attitude toward gun ownership disturbs me.

Not as much as Americans bitch about their guns though.

First thing I asked my husband when I got through the door was this.

"Question. On discussion forums, which country is obsessed with which single subject?"

Without hesitation he replied "America" and "guns".

I remember being on a naturist forum where one of the mods threw a tantrum because people were fed up of gun threads and wanted them banned. He ended up deleting the entire discussion forum and it needed to be retrieved from back-ups. In fairness though I think the number of gun threads are so high because a new one is created each time there is a mass shooting (of which there are many in America).

I understand the fears of a fascist government, we have it here in the UK as well. But it is an excuse. The UK is far further down the road of a fascist government than America. Yes you may have the NSA but we also have GCHQ which is effectively a regional office of the NSA. We don't have the same checks and balances that America does because our government has evolved piecemeal from the feudal system of the middle ages. Our democracy is a joke. The only power given to the people was that given to them to stop them from rebelling. We have an unelected House of Lords and a queen that has to give consent before a law is passed. We have the British establishment that exists to serve itself and will even cover up for paedophiles and murderers. We were dragged into a war that no one wanted. We're about to pay 100 billion pounds for a useless defence system while many thousands of people die because of cuts to services. Mass surveillance is rife and we don't have a constitution protecting our freedom of speech or privacy in the same way the Americans do. And now they're trying to take us out of Europe and we're now being sold into slavery to corporations via TTIP. But you still don't get lots of Brits repeatedly posting threads on forums demanding the chance to arm themselves. Yes we are sleep walking into corporate feudalism but even those aware of the situation do not want to arm the population (possibly because they know what happens outside pubs on a Friday and Saturday night).

The truth is that America has a gun problem and people do not want to be the first ones to leave themselves defenceless knowing that it will take a long time to reduce the amount of guns that can be obtained by the criminals. But you can't argue that without leaving yourself open to the accusation that you yourself are part of the problem. I understand that. I would worry too if I lived in America. It's why I never moved there for my career.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, yes, you're absolutely right,  and black people are obsessed with fried chicken...because it's the first thing that comes to mind.  I'm part of the gun problem, obviously...because guns, thank you for clearing that up.  

Perhaps Brits should grab their nuts, I don't know what to tell you, I'm certainly not interested in finding myself in their position while keeping my mouth shut.  

Sigh.

I can only reply, that you, people like you, and comments like yours...are the -actual- source of the gun problem in this country, insomuch as our inactivity is concerned.  Keep shilling for the fascists, they love it when the bar is set at zero. 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just cutting to the chase, because like a broken record the gun nutters say the same things again and again, like there being far fewer terrorists around if people were armed.

[Emphasis mine -- Thump]

And that's where you're using a straw man. I've never read one say that. What I've read them say is that there would not have been as many deaths if citizens had been armed.

But all the while conveniently forget that it wouldn't make a difference in a crowded concert. More guns being used = more casualties.

It wouldn't have made a difference at a concert because even in places which allow citizens to carry firearms -- like the US -- the concert promoters and venue owners don't permit them on the premises, and they would have been confiscated had they been found.

I'm not so sure I agree that a citizen with a gun would have increased the casualties at the concert, myself.