Still struggling.

[Socratic Meth Head]

Okay, me and my friend just got into a debate and right after he stopped texting me I got this feeling. I don't know how to describe it but it went away when I looked back at the debate and remembered evolutionary evidence. It came back though. I know OCD can cause false feelings and urges that feel so real, but how do I know this is one of those?

---

Okay, me and my friend just got into a debate and right after he stopped texting me I got this feeling. I don't know how to describe it but it went away when I looked back at the debate and remembered evolutionary evidence. It came back though. I know OCD can cause false feelings and urges that feel so real, but how do I know this is one of those?

Immediately after I got the feeling I had to re-assure, which I guess is a good sign.

[robvalue]

That's good, you're concentrating on the evidence. If you keep that in mind, you can't go far wrong. It will always back up the side of science and reason, and never religious woo. I appreciate how hard it is to keep your head when your emotions are fighting against you, and your OCD is feeding off it. But you're doing so well already, and it's still early days. Given time, you're bound to find it a bit easier.

Although evolution is a stone cold scientific fact, keep this in mind:

Even if evolution was "wrong", that in no way means any other explanation is valid if it doesn't have its own evidence. All we would have is a situation where we don't know, and we would try and form new and better models based on the available evidence. It does not default to magical stories based on fictional texts, with nothing to back it up but long standing oral myths. Seriously, if you picked up one of those books and you'd never heard anything about it before, you'd probably put it down laughing before even finishing genesis.

The idea that it must be "evolution" or else it's "creation and god and specifically the christian god" is a massive false dichotomy (a logical fallacy as detailed on my website here.)

[Socratic Meth Head]

That's good, you're concentrating on the evidence. If you keep that in mind, you can't go far wrong. It will always back up the side of science and reason, and never religious woo. I appreciate how hard it is to keep your head when your emotions are fighting against you, and your OCD is feeding off it. But you're doing so well already, and it's still early days. Given time, you're bound to find it a bit easier.

Although evolution is a stone cold scientific fact, keep this in mind:

Even if evolution was "wrong", that in no way means any other explanation is valid if it doesn't have its own evidence. All we would have is a situation where we don't know, and we would try and form new and better models based on the available evidence. It does not default to magical stories based on fictional texts, with nothing to back it up but long standing oral myths. Seriously, if you picked up one of those books and you'd never heard anything about it before, you'd probably put it down laughing before even finishing genesis.

The idea that it must be "evolution" or else it's "creation and god and specifically the christian god" is a massive false dichotomy (a logical fallacy as detailed on my website here.)

Yea, I watch videos like the timeline evolution and I understand it but still get some doubt. After the video I got some clarity. When I was debating I didn't even thing about doubt, whenever I speak to someone my intrusive thoughts go away. I need to get out more but I can't in public situations i am incredibly awkward and I get anxiety. It is so much more comfortable to stay here, communicate with people sometimes, and ride out some anxiety. I still need to get my mom to schedule my appointment but she wont, she says she doesn't like me going and I haven't told her why I am. I tell her just schedule it, i wouldn't be so concerned if I didn't need it. She just says okay and then i haven't heard anything about it since.

[robvalue]

I'm very sorry to hear that

Are you able to schedule it yourself?

Regarding evolution, there is no "controversy" as some religious people like to say:

Evolution: Mountains of evidence from many different fields of science

Creationism: No evidence whatsoever, no explanation, no model, nothing testable, nothing even sensible

[Socratic Meth Head]

I'm very sorry to hear that

Are you able to schedule it yourself?

Regarding evolution, there is no "controversy" as some religious people like to say:

Evolution: Mountains of evidence from many different fields of science

Creationism: No evidence whatsoever, no explanation, no model, nothing testable, nothing even sensible

I am aware of the evidence and that evolution is a fact. Now that OCD is intervening in my religious life or lack thereof, I doubt. I remember when our preacher said "The chance of humans evolving from bacteria is so small, where are the bad mutations if they are random." I don't think he understood natural selection weaves out bad mutations and good ones are passed on. I'm just ignoring the doubt, all I can do until I get rid of these conflicting thoughts.

[ignoramus]

Be weary of preachers like you are with used car salesman.

They are in sales.
They have ulterior motives..

The Vatican isn't gold plated out of their generosity...

[Socratic Meth Head]

Be weary of preachers like you are with used car salesman.

They are in sales.
They have ulterior motives..

The Vatican isn't gold plated out of their generosity...

I'm not a preacher? You say "Preachers like you" Is that a typo?

Things are going well, all my books are shipped except blind watchmaker.
Doubts are gone as I use reason, skepticism and realize all theist say is "THERE IS EVIDENCE" without listing any evidence. I could literally make a 10 hour long video of this.

[scoobysnack]

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

---

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

Also, I have always believed in things without much evidence. I always believe first ask later sadly. Now I am trying to do away with that. I have been conditioning myself to ask "Prove it" whenever someone presents something to me. I am very superstitious. I would wear special clothes for football games and wear hats for basketball. And as I said. I have a hard time acknowledging something as a coincidence. I keep feeling as if it were a "wink" from god.

You sound more like a religious person, but that's not required to understand God. There is a difference. I believe in evolution and science but I still understand God exists. Perhaps you have not taken the time to research all that there is to learn. Most here will disagree that there is not a God because they have not found him, or that what there is to suggest the existence is not enough to jusifty a belief, and it's more rational to believe in the material world and nothing more.

Not sure OCD has to do with anything. Can you explain that more?

Have you taken the time to explore near death experiences at all, including the atheists who thought they had it all figured out, only to realize they were in the dark about all thing spiritual?

http://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html

Ever heard of Edgar Cayce? Deffinetly an interesting guy to look into, at least for a new perspective on what life is:

http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edg...ences.html

[Socratic Meth Head]

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

---

Also, I have always believed in things without much evidence. I always believe first ask later sadly. Now I am trying to do away with that. I have been conditioning myself to ask "Prove it" whenever someone presents something to me. I am very superstitious. I would wear special clothes for football games and wear hats for basketball. And as I said. I have a hard time acknowledging something as a coincidence. I keep feeling as if it were a "wink" from god.

You sound more like a religious person, but that's not required to understand God. There is a difference. I believe in evolution and science but I still understand God exists. Perhaps you have not taken the time to research all that there is to learn. Most here will disagree that there is not a God because they have not found him, or that what there is to suggest the existence is not enough to jusifty a belief, and it's more rational to believe in the material world and nothing more.

Not sure OCD has to do with anything. Can you explain that more?

Have you taken the time to explore near death experiences at all, including the atheists who thought they had it all figured out, only to realize they were in the dark about all thing spiritual?

http://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html

Ever heard of Edgar Cayce? Deffinetly an interesting guy to look into, at least for a new perspective on what life is:

http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edg...ences.html

Well, I was a religious person. I have not found god because I do not see any physical evidence for him. (If you have any besides personal expirences and eyewitness accounts please state them and your sources.).
OCD Is and anxiety disorder, its intrusive thoughts that bring anxiety, discomfort, or doubt that people use compulsions to relieve.
I have taken time to explore near death experiences. There is a chemical called DMT that gets released when we are near death and it can be taken as a recreation drug and people describe it similar to religious or spiritiual things.
Never heard of the guy, I will look further into it.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

---

I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

Also, I have always believed in things without much evidence. I always believe first ask later sadly. Now I am trying to do away with that. I have been conditioning myself to ask "Prove it" whenever someone presents something to me. I am very superstitious. I would wear special clothes for football games and wear hats for basketball. And as I said. I have a hard time acknowledging something as a coincidence. I keep feeling as if it were a "wink" from god.

Keep reading posts here.

Read books by atheist scientists and philosophical writers.

Watch great shows such as The Atheist Experience.

Watch Sam Harris and Matt Dillahunty posts on Youtube.

Also on Youtube, there's a great series by Steve Shives called "An Atheist Reads (book by title, such as "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist")". He'll take you through all the arguments in the popular biblical apologists' books which would reinforce the awful voices which have been planted in your head, and you'll feel smarter the more you watch him deconstruct every single fallacy in his brilliantly humerous style.

Laugh! YouTube hosts plenty of clips by atheist comedians.

Getting the fear out of your head takes time, but at least it doesn't take faith. Taking in sensible, eye-opening material to replace the garbage will help. Hang in there, and you will eventually wonder how anybody can seriously believe any religious doctrine, ridiculous as they all are. If you were taught what you were by your parents beginning at your present age, then of course you know you would have rejected it outright - this is why ideas such as invisible god-powers depend on indoctrination beginning at infancy in order to keep the turds in suits employed.