Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[Crossless2.0]

What a surprise that a textual fundamentalist Christian would read the Koran like a textual fundamentalist Muslim might, ignoring that there are other ways to approach religious literature. Just as there are Christians who don't approach the Bible with Drich's preconceived ideas about how it is to be read and interpreted, so there are Muslims who don't fit neatly into his caricature of what Muslims are or should be. I assume he'd apply the No True Scotsman argument to Muslims who are more liberal in their reading of the Koran than others are with the same arrogant lack of hesitation he brings to the table when discussing other Christians.

How are you guys so ignorant, are you all supposed to be 'thinkers?' do you all really believe all religion works like how post-reformation Christianity works?
Maybe google something before you speak one time out of 10. At least then you'll have a chance of being right one time out of ten!

In islam rather Sunni Islam their are no "other" interpretations! there are a hand full of Imams and they set the 'interpretation' for that whole sect of Islam Which again represents 90% of 1.6 billion people who are in that faith.

These men are supposedly prophet level and can not be questioned. If you do not follow their teaching you are removed from the sect and can be stoned.

Again it is like where the christian church was in the dark ages, where other sects where hunted down and destroyed! What do you think ISIS is and is trying to do?

This holds true for 90% of islam, so who cares what the non violent 10% thinks? They are not the ones waging jihad.

are you guys really so blinded by your left wing insanity to think that 90% (1,440,000,000) people who condone the Jihad of those in their sect, would not also flip the jihad switch on if they too were so called to do so?

We are not just talking about fighting age men, but every man woman and child according to what a Sunni Muslim believes.

That is why the media is so very careful to brand all Islam the same. So they can speak as you do. (not everyone thinks the same, not all muslims wage jihad, etc...) No technically not all wage jihad, just 90% think jihad is a calling that they may be under going or someday may have to under go.

So, When I speak for the sunni Muslim and provide sunni text or a sunni link I am speaking for ALL Sunni (90%) of Muslims world wide. (baring those who are intentionally lying/Taqiya to stem off persecution)

Indeed, perhaps google something and you'll occasionally be right -- such as the role of Imams in Sunni Islam as contrasted with the role they play among the Shia. But by all means, keep "speaking for ALL Sunni Muslims" worldwide. I could use the laugh today.

[Drich]

roflol smiley thank you very much. He only comes out when one of you says something so... "Funny" I would be "immoral" not to use it.

<singing softly> I wish I were like you / easily amused ...

What you find funny says a lot more about you than you might realize.  

What I find funny Roflol funny is the opposition making a bold arrogant statement based on a empty unchecked assumption. When you see a Roflol emoji it's because one of you have made a critically false statement of had a serious laps in logical judgement.

Why would that be funny? because again these errors are made in such a way as to suggest that the position taken in error is indeed the superior one, arrogantly so.

you can't tell me if a Christian was making all kinds of demonstratively false claim concerning science and logic this would not be funny to you all.

[abaris]

you can't tell me if a Christian was making all kinds of demonstratively false claim concerning science and logic this would not be funny to you all.

Not even remotely funny, no. Rather sad, I would say. That's why I never could laugh about you or the select few on this board, who are on a similar line.

[Drich]

Can you imagine how a public debate would go?

Speaker 1: This is my opening statement.........

MC: Now over to you Drich for your opening statement.

Drich: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAHAHA,

Then an explanation as to how you are wrong, citations so that you can verify, and maybe an alliterative example that demonstrates the severity of your 'wrong-i-tude.'

Again Roflol emoji comes out when you all get a little too big for your breeches, and want to argue platitudes or stereotypes rather than facts, and you get it, really really wrong despite the attitude of being really really right.

[Drich]

How are you guys so ignorant, are you all supposed to be 'thinkers?' do you all really believe all religion works like how post-reformation Christianity works?
Maybe google something before you speak one time out of 10. At least then you'll have a chance of being right one time out of ten!

In islam rather Sunni Islam their are no "other" interpretations! there are a hand full of Imams and they set the 'interpretation' for that whole sect of Islam Which again represents 90% of 1.6 billion people who are in that faith.

These men are supposedly prophet level and can not be questioned. If you do not follow their teaching you are removed from the sect and can be stoned.

Again it is like where the christian church was in the dark ages, where other sects where hunted down and destroyed! What do you think ISIS is and is trying to do?

This holds true for 90% of islam, so who cares what the non violent 10% thinks? They are not the ones waging jihad.

are you guys really so blinded by your left wing insanity to think that 90% (1,440,000,000) people who condone the Jihad of those in their sect, would not also flip the jihad switch on if they too were so called to do so?

We are not just talking about fighting age men, but every man woman and child according to what a Sunni Muslim believes.

That is why the media is so very careful to brand all Islam the same. So they can speak as you do. (not everyone thinks the same, not all muslims wage jihad, etc...) No technically not all wage jihad, just 90% think jihad is a calling that they may be under going or someday may have to under go.

So, When I speak for the sunni Muslim and provide sunni text or a sunni link I am speaking for ALL Sunni (90%) of Muslims world wide. (baring those who are intentionally lying/Taqiya to stem off persecution)

Indeed, perhaps google something and you'll occasionally be right -- such as the role of Imams in Sunni Islam as contrasted with the role they play among the Shia. But by all means, keep "speaking for ALL Sunni Muslims" worldwide. I could use the laugh today.

you do know they do not share the same Imams right?

That means 1.4 billion people have their Imams who 'interpret' and allow for Jihad, and the Shia have a different set.
that leaves 8 to 10% belonging to the Shia and twelver, and the rest aren't even worth mentioning.

Again If 1.4 billion all think the same way and that way allows them to wage jihad at the prompting of religious leaders then who cares if the shia take a more passive role or one of the sub sets of shia takes even a more Christ like road. The fact of the matter is 9 out of 10 Muslims think it is ok to wage jihad against you and me and everyone else in the west!

So then WHY invite them in?

[Drich]

you can't tell me if a Christian was making all kinds of demonstratively false claim concerning science and logic this would not be funny to you all.

Not even remotely funny, no. Rather sad, I would say. That's why I never could laugh about you or the select few on this board, who are on a similar line.

Give me a break you and a bunch of your buddies took all of last week slamming me because you all thought what I said about Black holes and 'god particles' was wrong.

You all give no quarter, so you really should not expect it in return.

That said, If you approach me with respect I go out of my way to explain whatever you are at odds with in detail even if it means weeks of back and fourth without an ill word said.

However, if you approach the topic as if you were the master of it, you'd better be. Or I will 'check' you every chance I get.

[Rhondazvous]

Care to enlighten us on the bible passages, you love to quote so much, Drippy? They are fucking commands also, isn't it? At least for you they are, as you're4 not tiring to say. Do you go out to do all the things written there, if something happens, your god considers an abomination?

Btw, what exactly is your experience with Europe in any shape, way or form, that makes you an authority to judge? I mean, other than having met a few Greek businessmen confirming your notion that Greeks are slackers.

Maybe you could help me here, because I have no idea what you are talking about. Because otherwise know we are instructed that if a person does not welcome a discussion of God we are to simply move on.

Drippy, from where did you get this "quote?" All the misspellings seem more like something from you than from abaris. Abaris speaks and writes fluent English. Is this a forgery? Show me the post number.

[Rhondazvous]

This is about a majority in many places, though.  When the majority picks cherries....that's a lot of fucking cherries.

The alternative to cherry-picking is much worse.

When faced with a cherry tree, what alternative is there?

[abaris]

Drippy, from where did you get this "quote?" All the misspellings seem more like something from you than from abaris.  Abaris speaks and writes fluent English. Is this a forgery? Show me the post number.

No, it's genuine. I was typing rather fast and didn't take the time to review before posting. It happens.

[Crossless2.0]

Indeed, perhaps google something and you'll occasionally be right -- such as the role of Imams in Sunni Islam as contrasted with the role they play among the Shia. But by all means, keep "speaking for ALL Sunni Muslims" worldwide. I could use the laugh today.

you do know they do not share the same Imams right?

That means 1.4 billion people have their Imams who 'interpret' and allow for Jihad, and the Shia have a different set.
that leaves 8 to 10% belonging to the Shia and twelver, and the rest aren't even worth mentioning.

Again If 1.4 billion all think the same way and that way allows them to wage jihad at the prompting of religious leaders then who cares if the shia take a more passive role or one of the sub sets of shia takes even a more Christ like road. The fact of the matter is 9 out of 10 Muslims think it is ok to wage jihad against you and me and everyone else in the west!

So then WHY invite them in?

Yes, of course I know they don't share the same Imams. At first I couldn't figure out why you'd think I didn't, but I see that the way I worded my first sentence could lend itself to that reading. I should have written, ". . . such as the role of Imams in Sunni Islam as contrasted with the role Imams play among the Shia." I trust that would have been clearer.

My point of contention here is not that Sunni Muslims are saints or that a majority of them aren't in favor of Jihad (given the actual meaning of the word, as opposed to how it's thrown around in the media, it would be rather surprising if they didn't favor Jihad). It's that Sunnis and their Imams are not a monolithic group with a hive mentality. There is room within Sunni Islam for disagreement among clerics based on the schools of interpretation within Sunni circles, and therefore a certain degree of freedom among the Sunni faithful whether to endorse this or that position taken by this or that Imam and not all Sunni clerics support the efforts of ISIS, as evidenced by the Sunni clerics ISIS has executed for not supporting their brand of Jihad. Contrast that with Shia Imams whose authority is more strictly normative within their circles.