Someone stole the body!

[Redbeard The Pink]

Sorry, Drickleberry, but that still doesn't count for several possibilities.


For one, the body might not have made it to the tomb because the Romans just decided to pitch it instead of handing it over to Joseph of Aramathea. It could have been stolen by someone who wasn't a follower. It could have been stolen by a minor follower who didn't tell anyone else.


Or maybe it's just a story. Or 4 stories that differ from each other wildly, especially when we get to the important part (the ending).

 Okay, let's get something straight, the only source we have of what happened is the Bible and you can't haven't and never will prove they are wrong, people have tried for 2000 years and all have failed.

2 things. First, misplaced burden of proof. It is not up to me to prove your assertions wrong. It is up to you to demonstrate their truth via evidence. Second...bullshit. The Flood didn't happen, the creation account is wrong, Moses and Joseph of the Technicolor Dreamcoat were not real people, the Jews were never enslaved in large numbers in Egypt (nor did they all flee and wander the nearby desert for 40 years), and we can prove all of that. You just don't accept it because it would really, really fuck up your whole world view. Like, BIG time.


 

Now using the source we have the Romans did not take the body to the tomb and discard it in a ditch, they would not have disobeyed a direct order from Pilate, that would have meant death for them. The tomb was sealed and guarded by the Romans, they would not have been guarding an empty tomb, they weren't stupid. The Priest would not have let the tomb be sealed without the body, that would have inspired an empty tomb which they were determined to stop, they would have been there to make sure the body was sealed in the tomb. If the Romans had of thrown the body in a ditch then they could have gone back and produced that body to show there was no resurrection, well maybe, Jesus was going to rise no matter where his body was put, but to fulfill prophecy it was buried in a tomb. You are doing like others of your ilk, you are speculating and doing it badly because this isn't really important to you.

GC

That's a lot of speculation about the text going on in that post of yours, GC...you fucking hypocrite.


First off, why would the Romans give two shits whether people thought Jesus rose from the dead, and why would gentiles have been as familiar with Jewish prophecy as you claim? Also, if they really wanted people to know he was gone for good, why wouldn't they just leave him on the stick until he rotted his way off of it (like they did with virtually everyone else they crucified)? Letting people bury him would have been totally out of character for them, and placing a guard over a dead man would have been considered a waste of time and manpower. It is much more likely (according to REAL historical evidence) that they would have left him up until the flies were done and then tossed him in a hole.

[Gemini]

Okay let's get real about sin here. Poking me in the eye would be a sin against me, a sin you did without God influencing you, God wouldn't do that. 
You are wanting to get into an area of God's rights as creator, this can be a complicated discussion that could take quite a while to complete, it would be better to do as a study than on a forum. God has providence over His entire creation and thus God is justified in anything He does that is within who He is. You need to understand this part of God's plan, it's to redeem all those who will accept His Son, Jesus Christ, for who He is and what He did for us. God is not in the business of tempting people to sin, that would be contrary to who He is.
 I was doing something in our discussion that I rarely ever do and that's to speculate a situation that would not ever happen and I should have let you know that to begin with, sorry.
 I'm not even sure how to try and go through a discussion like this in a forum format. I'll look up some theological explanations in one of my book to see if I can come up with something, could take some time. Just remember this, we understand from the scriptures that God can not sin and He will not tempt someone to sin, both would be contrary to who God is. I'm sure I've confused this even more and, shouldn't have started this discussion speculating an impossible situation, again I'm sorry, ask more questions and I'll try and get back to you Monday, have a good weekend.

It's interesting to think that God could appear before me and say, "I, God, command you to poke a baptist in the eye!"

And I could reply, "Nope. I'm an atheist. Not gonna do what you say, sorry."

And we would both be morally justified.

I'll bet a God who wasn't omnibenevolent would do that kind of thing, too. Just for fun.

[Jehanne]

Okay let's get real about sin here. Poking me in the eye would be a sin against me, a sin you did without God influencing you, God wouldn't do that. 
You are wanting to get into an area of God's rights as creator, this can be a complicated discussion that could take quite a while to complete, it would be better to do as a study than on a forum. God has providence over His entire creation and thus God is justified in anything He does that is within who He is. You need to understand this part of God's plan, it's to redeem all those who will accept His Son, Jesus Christ, for who He is and what He did for us. God is not in the business of tempting people to sin, that would be contrary to who He is.
 I was doing something in our discussion that I rarely ever do and that's to speculate a situation that would not ever happen and I should have let you know that to begin with, sorry.
 I'm not even sure how to try and go through a discussion like this in a forum format. I'll look up some theological explanations in one of my book to see if I can come up with something, could take some time. Just remember this, we understand from the scriptures that God can not sin and He will not tempt someone to sin, both would be contrary to who God is. I'm sure I've confused this even more and, shouldn't have started this discussion speculating an impossible situation, again I'm sorry, ask more questions and I'll try and get back to you Monday, have a good weekend.

It's interesting to think that God could appear before me and say, "I, God, command you to poke a baptist in the eye!"

And I could reply, "Nope. I'm an atheist. Not gonna do what you say, sorry."

And we would both be morally justified.

I'll bet a God who wasn't omnibenevolent would do that kind of thing, too. Just for fun.

God has a sense of divinely perfect humor.  After all, if God can order his Chosen People to murder innocent babies and children in cold blood, why not command poking a heretic in the eye?

[Minimalist]

It's interesting to think that God could appear before me and say, "I, God, command you to poke a baptist in the eye!"

Not really.  Not if he'd ever met one.  Annoying bastards.

[The Valkyrie]

Necrophiliacs!

[Gemini]

God has a sense of divinely perfect humor.  After all, if God can order his Chosen People to murder innocent babies and children in cold blood, why not command poking a heretic in the eye?

I just had a thought. What if Norse mythology is true, and the Judaeo/Christian God is really Loki? That would explain a lot.

'Twas Loki who appeared before Jan Matthys and told him to sally forth with a mere twelve soldiers againts the armies of Franz von Waldeck; 'twas Loki again whose divine appearances inspired the Children's Crusade; and 'tis Loki today that is causing so many evangelicals to feel "led by the spirit" to vote for the Donald.

[Jehanne]

God has a sense of divinely perfect humor.  After all, if God can order his Chosen People to murder innocent babies and children in cold blood, why not command poking a heretic in the eye?

I just had a thought. What if Norse mythology is true, and the Judaeo/Christian God is really Loki? That would explain a lot.

'Twas Loki who appeared before Jan Matthys and told him to sally forth with a mere twelve soldiers againts the armies of Franz von Waldeck; 'twas Loki again whose divine appearances inspired the Children's Crusade; and 'tis Loki today that is causing so many evangelicals to feel "led by the spirit" to vote for the Donald.

I like your new religion; go forth and spread the Word, or at least put up a web page somewhere.  Include a link to a PayPal donation and you're off and running!

[Godscreated]

 Okay let's get real about sin here. Poking me in the eye would be a sin against me, a sin you did without God influencing you, God wouldn't do that. 
You are wanting to get into an area of God's rights as creator, this can be a complicated discussion that could take quite a while to complete, it would be better to do as a study than on a forum. God has providence over His entire creation and thus God is justified in anything He does that is within who He is. You need to understand this part of God's plan, it's to redeem all those who will accept His Son, Jesus Christ, for who He is and what He did for us. God is not in the business of tempting people to sin, that would be contrary to who He is.
 I was doing something in our discussion that I rarely ever do and that's to speculate a situation that would not ever happen and I should have let you know that to begin with, sorry.
 I'm not even sure how to try and go through a discussion like this in a forum format. I'll look up some theological explanations in one of my book to see if I can come up with something, could take some time. Just remember this, we understand from the scriptures that God can not sin and He will not tempt someone to sin, both would be contrary to who God is. I'm sure I've confused this even more and, shouldn't have started this discussion speculating an impossible situation, again I'm sorry, ask more questions and I'll try and get back to you Monday, have a good weekend.

GC

The Bible says that God fools people by giving them delusions that they think are true.  So by deceiving people God gets them to sin.  He's a real scumbag.

 Only to those who disobey Him and He knows will not accept Christ as savior.

GC

[IATIA]

The Bible says that God fools people by giving them delusions that they think are true.  So by deceiving people God gets them to sin.  He's a real scumbag.

 Only to those who disobey Him and He knows will not accept Christ as savior.

GC

Which is one of the main problems with your god. He already knows that I will never accept christ, so the only reason for me to exist is for your god's sadistic pleasure in sending me to hell.

[Godscreated]

 Okay, let's get something straight, the only source we have of what happened is the Bible and you can't haven't and never will prove they are wrong, people have tried for 2000 years and all have failed.

2 things. First, misplaced burden of proof. It is not up to me to prove your assertions wrong. It is up to you to demonstrate their truth via evidence. Second...bullshit. The Flood didn't happen, the creation account is wrong, Moses and Joseph of the Technicolor Dreamcoat were not real people, the Jews were never enslaved in large numbers in Egypt (nor did they all flee and wander the nearby desert for 40 years), and we can prove all of that. You just don't accept it because it would really, really fuck up your whole world view. Like, BIG time.

You're the one who is always claiming the Bible is not true, the Bible has been accepted as truth for some 2000 years, it's the minority who claim it's not true, so as I see it the minority have the burden of proof upon them. You are afraid to try and disprove scripture because you know you do not understand this spiritual book. There is no truth to anything you mentioned, there is no proof.


 

Now using the source we have the Romans did not take the body to the tomb and discard it in a ditch, they would not have disobeyed a direct order from Pilate, that would have meant death for them. The tomb was sealed and guarded by the Romans, they would not have been guarding an empty tomb, they weren't stupid. The Priest would not have let the tomb be sealed without the body, that would have inspired an empty tomb which they were determined to stop, they would have been there to make sure the body was sealed in the tomb. If the Romans had of thrown the body in a ditch then they could have gone back and produced that body to show there was no resurrection, well maybe, Jesus was going to rise no matter where his body was put, but to fulfill prophecy it was buried in a tomb. You are doing like others of your ilk, you are speculating and doing it badly because this isn't really important to you.

GC

That's a lot of speculation about the text going on in that post of yours, GC...you fucking hypocrite.

No not at all, my situation is taken from what we know of the Romans and what the Bible tells us.

First off, why would the Romans give two shits whether people thought Jesus rose from the dead, and why would gentiles have been as familiar with Jewish prophecy as you claim? Also, if they really wanted people to know he was gone for good, why wouldn't they just leave him on the stick until he rotted his way off of it (like they did with virtually everyone else they crucified)? Letting people bury him would have been totally out of character for them, and placing a guard over a dead man would have been considered a waste of time and manpower. It is much more likely (according to REAL historical evidence) that they would have left him up until the flies were done and then tossed him in a hole.

 Pilate was concerned about the priest causing the people to riot if they did not put Jesus in the tomb and seal it, putting a guards there to make sure that no one stole the body, was the priests idea. Pilate wanted to avoid trouble, it was good job security and life insurance. 

 Pilate never thought Jesus was a criminal and when Joseph came to request the body be turned over to him Pilate did what he saw as responsible and go against what the trouble making priest wanted. It was a way to get back at them.

 So you believe all of history goes by a strict code that can never be broken, especially by those in power who can break the rules to help out the grieving.

 GC