20 dead in Orlando gay club shooting

[Minimalist]

John Oliver did a prelim to his show last night.






And now, 'Murrica, you can go back to lighting candles and wearing ribbons and your useless fucking praying safe in the knowledge that next time this happens it will be the same shit all over again.

[Huggy Bear]

And now, 'Murrica, you can go back to lighting candles and wearing ribbons and your useless fucking praying safe in the knowledge that next time this happens it will be the same shit all over again.

Really? Wasn't there just like 130 people killed in a mass shooting in France? How is gun control working for them?

[Huggy Bear]

The FBI report I linked uses the term "homicide", which simply means one person causing the death of another and makes no distinction of intent, so comparing homicide with homicide is an apt comparison.

Your explanation is nonsense. Here is a screenshot of that linked page. I added the yellow arrow and the red box to draw your attention to the word "murder", which has a specific meaning when used by the FBI:

Furthermore if a person intends to kill someone, what is a gun ban going to do?

I never have advocated for a gun ban, Sparky.

You clearly need more practice with this reading stuff.

You do realize that "murder" falls under the umbrella of "homicide" right?

http://criminal.lawyers.com/felonies/blo...icide.html

The terms murder and homicide are frequently interchanged; however, there is a difference between the two.  Homicide is the killing of one person by another.  Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person, sometimes with premeditation (a plan to kill).  Manslaughter is another type of criminal homicide.

[Minimalist]

And now, 'Murrica, you can go back to lighting candles and wearing ribbons and your useless fucking praying safe in the knowledge that next time this happens it will be the same shit all over again.

Really? Wasn't there just like 130 people killed in a mass shooting in France? How is gun control working for them?

Yeah, asswipe. They had one.  We have them every fucking day because of morons like you.

[Huggy Bear]

Really? Wasn't there just like 130 people killed in a mass shooting in France? How is gun control working for them?

Yeah, asswipe. They had one.  We have them every fucking day because of morons like you.

http://crimeresearch.org/2016/01/france-...-to-424-2/

Yet, despite the impression that President Obama has been creating, France suffered more casualties (murders and injuries) from mass public shootings in 2015 than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (Updated 532 to 396).  Note that these numbers don’t adjust for the fact that the US has 4.98 times the population of France.  The per capita rate of casualties in France is thus 8.19 per million and for the US it is 1.22 — France’s per capita rate of casualties is thus 6.68 times higher than the rate in the US.

Also you apparently didn't see where I stated that I don't own any guns.

[Minimalist]

Then you're just stupid because you are defending something that you have no stake in.  Other than the fact that you may be shot by someone with one.

[A Theist]

I skimmed the first two pages and the last two because I'm not reading 25 pages of people arguing if I'm not along for the ride already. With that said I'm very surprised by how the convo has gone. It seems to be mostly on guns (from what I saw but maybe in those pages that I skipped there was more) I thought due to the fact that we are mostly atheists I thought this would be about gays and bashing on religions not guns. Anyone wanna give me a summary of the past 25 pages if I missed anything important? lol

Nope. You didn't miss anything. The conversation is pretty much the same in between too. A radicalized Islamic terrorist, (ISIS inspired), attacks and murders people at a gay night club in Orlando and the NRA gets blamed with cries for more gun control. ISIS is also taking credit for the attack. Go figure.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I will say this from personal experience in Chicago. Just this year, I have heard with my own ears 2 shootings - 5 rounds less than a half block from my building and 17 rounds 2 blocks south. Last month 5 people were shot dead about 4 blocks from me. The situation in Chicago is somewhat unique because, as I understand it, the gangs here are organized differently that those in NY or LA making law enforcement more difficult. The violence in Chicago is not right-wing gun fanatics or Islamic terrorists; but rather gang related. They are criminals. They buy guns illegally, mostly in Indiana. I do not blame lax gun laws. I blame drugs and gangs.

Now I realize this is AF and the tendency is to lump all religions in together. I've already seen lots of comments equating Christians and Christianity with Islam and Muslims. Say what you want about Christians, call us bigots, etc.. The fact is Christians, to the extent they care, will preach or verbally condemn. A few refuse to bake cakes or photograph gay weddings. I think there is a world of difference between not baking a cake and shooting 50 gays. Those of you who have made that false equivalency, I hope you are satisfied. You've made your point at the expense of distracting everyone from the real enemies.

The enemies are an international network of cold-blooded Islamist killers, timid & apologetic politicians, tacitly supportive citizens, and explicitly supportive foreign governments. Not gun lovers. Not the mentally ill. If these were white-supremacists, the FBI would infiltrate their organizations and take them down from within. Their white-supremacist ideology, not "gun-culture" would be seen as the motivation for their violence. But because of the close relationship these killers have with Islam, our officials are reluctant to do the same. Muslim citizens do not come forward, which is understandably difficult sometimes. Non-Muslims do not report suspicious behavior for fear of being seen as racist. And politicians avoid the conversation about very specific religious doctrines of one particular faith tradition.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You do realize that "murder" falls under the umbrella of "homicide" right?

Of course I do. The sad thing is that you don't realize you're equivocating the two when the FBI doesn't. The FBI data that you cited specifically refers to murder, the federal legal definition of which I have linked above.

We can add this, and statistics, to the list of things you don't understand.

Try your semantics elsewhere.

[Pat Mustard]

Well seeing as the only time that the supreme court definitively ruled in favour of a "all citizens can own guns" was with Scalia in 2008, I'd move that the ruling of an incompetent idiot should be stricken from the records (even if in the case of Scalia he somehow developed the blowjob skills to be appointed by an Alzheimer's sufferer)

"all citizens can have a gun", does not entitle you to one. Just like you have the right to buy a car, you still have to train yourself to drive and prove to the state you can drive properly  before you get a licence and you have to have the money to buy it, and while you drive you have to maintain a good driving record.

Point being we make way too many guns and we don't do enough to vet those who buy them. I am tired of the bullshit "don't punish the responsible owners". BULLSHIT, legal at time of buy does not prevent someone from harming others after that legal buy.

I'm not talking about punishing the responsible owners, but about properly acknowledging that a) a system which effectively gives carte blanche to gun ownership and b) was never intended to be like this by the original writers of the constitution is simply not working. Here in Ireland, where gun control is probably more lax than in most other countries, you have to prove that you're a responsible member of the community in good standing but also that when not in appropriate use, your guns are safely locked away with the ammunition locked in a separate place. This is something I don't see with US gun laws.