Shouldn't Atheists learn to accept religion?

[IATIA]

My question is; "Why don't they have to respect my wishes?".

[dyresand]

My question is; "Why don't they have to respect my wishes?".

The brownie points for "saving" people.

[account_inactive]

I do tolerate religion to a certain extent. But when you try force your religious beliefs on everyone else, discriminate against LGBT and/or Atheist people or commit acts of violence on behalf of the said religion, that's when it becomes an issue.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, I'd accept The One True Faith.

I'm still waiting for some evidence.  You got anything new and compelling for me ??


(If its any variety of Mormon, oh, do I have a news bulletin for you !)

Glad to see you back, knucklehead.

[Esquilax]

It really surprised me to see that atheists on the internet seem to have very little respect for religion. I understand that perspective- there really is no sense of logic to it, it's seems silly, and it can be dangerous. But I also think that in moderate amounts it can be a very good thing. Some people (most people) are comforted by faith in a god, and I really think it's something many people need in their lives to feel whole. I think that's probably why they so often don't understand how atheists can go without a God. Religion isn't required by all people to feel happy, but for some people it definitely is. I don't feel that this is a failure on the part of those people, but apparently many other athiests do.

For someone so interested in respect, you certainly do seem to have a lower estimation of theists than I do. This idea that some religious people "need" their faith, coming from an atheist, is disrespectful and condescending.

Think about what you're saying: "Oh, I understand that it's false, but some weak little people need that emotional crutch to go on. They aren't stable enough to deal without it." You might cloak it in nicer words, but all you're really saying is that some people can't accept reality and require a delusion just to function: so we've got you rabbiting on about respect while characterizing theists as weak-willed and in need of a cosmic authority, and you've got us asserting that theists are just as strong as we are and able to function better without the blinders on, and yet somehow you've come to the conclusion that our position is the disrespectful, deficient one? How do you even do that?

For that matter, how do you establish this idea that some people "need" religion? If the people you're thinking of have never been without it, to the point that they can't even fathom what that would look like, how do you know that religion is a requisite to them at all? You've got no means of knowing how they'd fare without it, so why assume that it would end badly?

[J a c k]

I'm not trying to upset anyone here. This is my personal opinion and I just want to know if anyone agrees with me. I see so much hate flying around on the internet from both atheists and religious people and I really don't think any of it is nessesary.

I don't know what atheism is to you, but for me it's just a simple view: I don't believe in God. I get very annoyed when religious people try to convert me back to faith (I have one very devout family member who really irritates me) and I think that needs to stop. There's nothing wrong with not believing.

But I also don't have a problem with faith.

It really surprised me to see that atheists on the internet seem to have very little respect for religion. I understand that perspective- there really is no sense of logic to it, it's seems silly, and it can be dangerous. But I also think that in moderate amounts it can be a very good thing. Some people (most people) are comforted by faith in a god, and I really think it's something many people need in their lives to feel whole. I think that's probably why they so often don't understand how atheists can go without a God. Religion isn't required by all people to feel happy, but for some people it definitely is. I don't feel that this is a failure on the part of those people, but apparently many other athiests do.

I think religious faith can contribute a lot to a persons life. Not every persons life -I certainly dont' want it- but why else would it have persisted so long if it didn't mean something? Tolerance of differing beliefs isn't just for athiests. I think it's important that we remember that all beliefs should be respected, even if they seem ludicrous to us.

So what do you guys think?

Well, I'd accept The One True Faith.

I'm still waiting for some evidence.  You got anything new and compelling for me ??


(If its any variety of Mormon, oh, do I have a news bulletin for you !)

Vorlon!!!! 

[KevinM1]

I accept/respect the religious on a case by case basis. I fail to see why I must accept/respect religion.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm an atheist. I am different to Muslims.  And, again, not everyone with a religious belief is going around killing people, or forcing their religion down their throats. Some people genuinely just want to be left alone to believe what they believe.

and I'm not saying it's okay for religious people to impose their religion on others. That's not okay. That's unfair. I am saying that if you want them to respect the fact that you believe in no god, you have to respect the fact that they do believe in a god. And a lot of atheists online these days just aren't doing that.

I don't have to respect anything but the person him- or herself, and that only within the measure that they earn it. I certainly don't need to respect an unsupported belief. I don't go to religious websites and tell them that they are fools. I would like to be able to come here and enjoy the same peace of not having some jackass badgering me. When they refuse to extend to me the same courtesy I extend to them, why should I remain silent?

I treat others the way they treat me, and I sleep easy at night.

I don't care if they don't respect my lack of faith; as a matter of fact, having lived 35 years as an atheist in a religious country, I'm rather enured to their disrespect.

tl/dr: if you want me to respect you as a person, carry yourself respectfully. If you want me to respect your beliefs, make sure they're respectable. I will speak my mind either way, and leave the hand-wringing to you.

I will not apologize for my lack of faith, nor will I apologize for standing up for myself.

I'm just trying to make the point that religion as a whole, as a concept, is not inherently a bad thing and that the idea of it is not something that should be supressed.

I don't want to repress religion, I want to be left the hell alone by it. Maybe you should carry this message into a few churches before you lecture us here? I mean, I ain't trying to pass any laws banning this or that practice which offends me.

The central message of Christianity is supposed to be love.

Pity such a noble message landed upon such deaf ears, then.

Since we're going to talk about all world religions and the benefit they provide mankind, perhaps you might start by listing a few of those benefits which cannot be found otherwise?

[Jackalope]

No, I respect individuals, not their ideology. That goes for atheists as well, there are a number I have an intense dislike for, same as with theists.

[pocaracas]

I think religious belief is different from things like anti-vaccination in that it doesn't cause any bodily harm to people. Whether it causes mental harm is something people disagree on, but it's really a decision for the individual if they want to believe in something that may be damaging.

errr..... no.
Religion DOES cause bodily harm to people.
9/11/2001?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/03/world/...id-attack/

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_a...oning.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ashes.html


Also, people don't decide to believe in something. They just believe it and then find a way to justify it.
http://www.michaelshermer.com/the-believing-brain/

I disagree with the drugs comparison in that I think religious belief is a good thing and so nothing like drugs at all. I also don't think it causes more harm than good in society. I think it's only harmful when taken to extremes, as in the case of terrorism, when people try to impose their beliefs on others or when they take their sacred text literally. Not every person with religious faith does these things -the vast majority of them never hurt anyone.

Indeed, most religious people just want to live and let live.
But they do form a body of support for the extremists: https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2...ort-jihad/

There have also been murders in my country over ideological differences. During the late twentieth century and even the early 2000's thousands of people were killed in Northern Ireland because of conflict between Catholics and Protestants. While that was also down to political differences religion definitely had something to do with it. So I understand that religion can be a cause for violence. But so can race, and football, and those things aren't considered inherently damaging.

Football, race or those things don't have a rule book telling people to harm others for going against them...

And by respecting a belief I mean respecting a person's right to have it and the validity of that belief. Many atheists I have seen online are openly scornful of religious people and insist that having a belief in god is the result of stupidity or brainwashing. They don't consider it a 'real' belief because it is not backed up by logic. But I don't think beliefs have to be logical in order to count for something.

It's true.
Believers believe mostly because they are taught to believe since their youth. It's called indoctrination.
Their continued belief is a testament to how well the human brain accommodates such a method of teaching. Not a result of "stupidity". Some very intelligent people are believers. They are victims of the indoctrination methodology.

Beliefs need not be logical, no. They are just intuition, the pattern seeking within our brains, coupled with that priming through indoctrination, generates the gut feeling that is the belief.
The belief is then processed... all data available is considered... but through another major brain flaw of ours, confirmation bias - unless overwhelming data exists to disprove the belief, the brain can sort out or explain away discrepancies in data that doesn't align with the initial belief, or gut feeling; and take any data that seemingly confirms that belief as valid.
I used "seemingly" here, because that pattern seeking brain of ours will also interpret some data in ways that need not be aligned with reality - often we see correlation in events, but it is well known that "correlation does not imply causation"; it takes great care to distinguish these two - many many medical studies often confuse them.


That said, it is also true that religion helps some people cope with the troubles of every-day life. Helps people feel a part of a larger community.
Some people, without religion, become depressed.... of course, some people are depressed, even with religion... so it's not a vaccine for this particular malady. It does help. But at what cost?

Can anyone be intellectually honest and state that a god exists? any god that mankind has ever worshiped! No.
As long as religions operate on beliefs, they don't operate on reality.... they operate on the real thoughts of people - thoughts we know very well can be about fictitious characters. And many of us do so desire magic to be real.... time travel, to be all powerful, all knowing... What I could do if I were so powerful...

Knowing what I know about how beliefs come about and how religions exploit brain flaws, how can I do anything but scorn those beliefs and feel pity at those who utterly fail to understand these mechanisms?