Refuting Christians with their Own Bible

[SteveII]

SteveII    I'm having a hard time not calling you a fuck-tard.  I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

And I look for reasonable discussions to have and I just don't see this going that direction.

[The Grand Nudger]

Can you appreciate the difficulty of having such a discussion when it begins to center around a persons belief that slavery is a mercifully logical solution to the problems presented by the killing of a persons parents or provider?  

Could have just, IDK< not killed their parents, could have taken them in as your own, could have employed them gainfully, could have made reperations from the bounty of your conquest.  

Nope, it's all red lights and partytime...mercifully, logically....... blessedly. Amen.

[RetiredArmy]

SteveII    I'm having a hard time not calling you a fuck-tard.  I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

And I look for reasonable discussions to have and I just don't see this going that direction.

What did you expect?  You excuse slavery as a necessity of the times.  It's wrong today, it was wrong when Exodus was written.  The morality does not change.  Was man not enlightened enough to see this?  Ok, that's possible.  But an all powerful, all knowing god would know better.  Except this god of yours DIDN'T know it was wrong then (supposedly).  So yeah, it's hard not to look down on someone who says slavery is ok under certain circumstances, based on a book of myths.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the frustrating thing about conversations like this.  At every turn we're told (by believers, no less) that the author of morality is a degenerate, and that this degeneracy is, in fact, the highest standard of moral behavior conceivable..... which sits in righteous and terrible judgement upon our tainted souls.

 It makes the wicked virtuous, and virtue wicked.

[SteveII]

Can you appreciate the difficulty of having such a discussion when it begins to center around a persons belief that slavery is a mercifully logical solution to the problems presented by the killing of a persons parents or provider?  

Could have just, IDK< not killed their parents, could have taken them in as your own, could have employed them gainfully, could have made reperations from the bounty of your conquest.  

Nope, it's all red lights and partytime...mercifully, logically....... blessedly.  Amen.

So your solution was to be the pacifist nation among all constantly warring people of the middle east? The Israelites were not particularly war-like. Mostly wars were defensive in nature. They stayed put after the initial conquest for over a 1000 years--with some breaks when they were carted away as slaves.

What about the poor? The people who needed the safety net that selling yourself or family member provided over misery and possible death? You do realize that these practices were done thousands of years before and 2000 years after Exodus 21.

[The Grand Nudger]

You tell me that their wars were defensive in nature, but of course I was directly referring to a story from your magic book in which they were told to aggress and eradicate, and then enslave the female children.  A divine mandate with the blessing of their holy laws.

Fortunately for the human race, it's fiction.  It's a story that expresses that groups desire to be the conquerors, rather than their reality as the conquered.

What about the poor? Should we enslave the poor? Just where do you intend to take this...really?

[SteveII]

And I look for reasonable discussions to have and I just don't see this going that direction.

What did you expect?  You excuse slavery as a necessity of the times.  It's wrong today, it was wrong when Exodus was written.  The morality does not change.  Was man not enlightened enough to see this?  Ok, that's possible.  But an all powerful, all knowing god would know better.  Except this god of yours DIDN'T know it was wrong then (supposedly).  So yeah, it's hard not to look down on someone who says slavery is ok under certain circumstances, based on a book of myths.

Like I just said above, it was going on for thousands of years before and thousands of years after Exodus 21. God regulated it for the people of the time. You have to ask the question was it more merciful to regulate it or prohibit it? What happens to the poor? There was not social safety net. What happens to the conquered survivors? They have no means of making a living, caring for their children etc. There are fates far worse than these customs. 

The article I posted spoke about how these customs were not the same as our recent bout with slavery. It was unlawful to go grab people and make them slaves. It was not based on race. There were guidelines about how much a slave could work. From the slave's perspective, I imagine it would range from resentful to grateful a worse fate did not occur. There is also the analysis of basic needs being met. We think a basic need is freedom. I am not so sure that even ranked in the top 10 in the the ancient harsh world.

[RetiredArmy]

I understand you think slavery can be useful to prevent suffering. That's really fucked-up strange backwards thinking, but you go with that. Do you think this applies today? If I find you starving on the street, do I get to keep you as my slave for feeding you and keeping you from dying? I'm guessing (and hoping) you'll say no. If it's wrong today, it was wrong then. Morality is not a sliding scale based on the year or how many wars are being fought, or if people knew where the sun went at night. But forget about people, we're talking about the word of your god. He (and you, apparently) condones slavery in your holy book. Basic human condition, human suffering, is the basis of morality, not some god that doesn't exist, and not people like you who think slavery is ok in certain conditions.

[The Grand Nudger]

The article I posted spoke about how these customs were not the same as our recent bout with slavery. It was unlawful to go grab people and make them slaves. It was not based on race.

...and how does that bit of apologism square with the story in magic book..where they were told to attack a foreign race of peoples, deprive them of their land and lives..and while they were at it grab their daughters, by your god?

Jehovah have a bad day or something? Hell, the only thing that seems to piss him off on a -good- day is letting some of the other guys live, he starts offing his own stormtroopers.

[SteveII]

I understand you think slavery can be useful to prevent suffering.  That's really fucked-up strange backwards thinking, but you go with that.  Do you think this applies today?  If I find you starving on the street, do I get to keep you as my slave for feeding you and keeping you from dying?  I'm guessing (and hoping) you'll say no.  If it's wrong today, it was wrong then.  Morality is not a sliding scale based on the year or how many wars are being fought, or if people knew where the sun went at night.  But forget about people, we're talking about the word of your god.  He (and you, apparently) condones slavery in your holy book.  Basic human condition, human suffering, is the basis of morality, not some god that doesn't exist, and not people like you who think slavery is ok in certain conditions.

No, I do not think slavery is okay today. Why the difference? Our society has the capacity to find better solutions.