The problem with muslims...

[Anymouse]

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To many, of course, the spread of Islam is like the spreading of a mental virus. However, I will not argue with that because that is their own view since they don't believe in God and religion in the first place.

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It wasnt always like this.

It seems that the younger muslims are being more demonstrative of their muslimness since 7/7 and to a lesser extent 9/11.

I've only recently started seeing women in burqas and they are scary, I shiver everytime I see one, its an involuntary action, (Because of the burqas, most women dont get that response i hasten to add)

And yet, don't you think it silly that you feel threatened by woman wearing a particular piece of cloth? (Granted, a burqa is a -big- piece of cloth, but cloth nonetheless.) She is dressed "differently," and you have an involuntary shiver as if every woman in a burqa is a terroist? Like every Irish is a drunkard, every Pole is stupid, every Mexican is lazy or a drug-dealer? That anything that is not "of your culture" prompts a reaction of fear, and the desire to wipe it out?

It is really no different than how immigrants are treated here in the USA, or how immigrants "circle the wagons" here or as I commented on the previous page in Spain.

[downbeatplumb]

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And yet, don't you think it silly that you feel threatened by woman wearing a particular piece of cloth? (Granted, a burqa is a -big- piece of cloth, but cloth nonetheless.) She is dressed "differently," and you have an involuntary shiver as if every woman in a burqa is a terroist? Like every Irish is a drunkard, every Pole is stupid, every Mexican is lazy or a drug-dealer? That anything that is not "of your culture" prompts a reaction of fear, and the desire to wipe it out?
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I did say it was an involuntary reaction. I think its that they are so out of place.
I also know that most women in burqas are either brain washed or oppressed, but just occasionally some go boom.

[Anymouse]

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And yet, don't you think it silly that you feel threatened by woman wearing a particular piece of cloth? (Granted, a burqa is a -big- piece of cloth, but cloth nonetheless.) She is dressed "differently," and you have an involuntary shiver as if every woman in a burqa is a terroist? Like every Irish is a drunkard, every Pole is stupid, every Mexican is lazy or a drug-dealer? That anything that is not "of your culture" prompts a reaction of fear, and the desire to wipe it out?
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I did say it was an involuntary reaction. I think its that they are so out of place.
I also know that most women in burqas are either brain washed or oppressed, but just occasionally some go boom.

True, you did say it was involuntary (cultural conditioning).

As I don't often point out (because it gets me a lot of guff here), if you count all the people killed on 9/11, that adds up to less than all the people killed here every month of drunk-drive accidents (or all servicemen killed in Vietnam from here every year). That most of our terrorism here (Timothy McVeigh, Jared Loughner, abortion clinic bombers, doctor shooters), are culturally born-and-bred Americans. They don't wear burqas and turbans, they wear tee-shirts and jeans and drive Ford and Chevy trucks and cars.

But they are scared of burqas, not gun-totting gun nuts at political rallies. They want scanners at airports but do not want to regulate terrorists like the Right-to-Lifers, Jack Daniels and Ingram or Colt.

I am scared of people like Michelle Bachmann, currently the Republican front-runner according to a recent poll in the Des Moines Register for president, who support such people and have about as good a grasp of history as Sarah Palin.

[The Grand Nudger]

Leave Jack, Colt and Ingrams out of this you heathen..lol.

[Anymouse]

Leave Jack, Colt and Ingrams out of this you heathen..lol.

That's Mr. Scary not-culturally-assimilated-like-the-Borg-heathen to you.

[Napoléon]

....what I've been reading so far, it seems that the British Muslims tend to live in their own segregated communities, and have these certain "no go" areas, which makes the non-Muslims a little bit unwelcome for that reason. But the idea of "no go" may be due to the the non-Muslims feeling like foreigners in their own country and thus leading them to invent such a word. Another reason for the existence of such isolated communities may be caused by incidents of racist victimization of incoming Asian and/or Muslim families. I don't if this is true, but that's a possibility. Therefore, I think it's quite possible that the division is mostly influenced by racial views rather than by religious views.

Hmm, no-go areas is most certainly a word created due to what you described.
As for your other reason, it may be more realistic to say that the 'asian/muslim families' are the ones causing the 'racist victimization'. In fact the rise of muslim gangs is becoming more and more prevalent. One non-muslim family who were living in an asian dominated area were getting bricks and stones thrown at their windows by local asian youths. Just a month ago my friend got car-jacked in another asian community here in Birmingham. Sure these may just be isolated incidents, but I could just as easily argue that muslims are the ones inciting racial hatred and not the other way around.
I would say it's a cultural issue more than anything else. And seen as these particular asian's cultures are heavily influenced if not governed by Islam, then is Islam not the core of the problem? I'm not saying "WIPE OUT ISLAM" or fight it or anything like that, but surely as a muslim you should be responsibly for effectively integrating into the country you have moved to (not directed at you personally)?

The main threats comes from extremists, be it religious extremists or political extremists. I don't know if a lot of them exist in Britain. But, remember that there are 1.6 to 1.8 million British Muslims, and the media and self-interested parties will tend to focus on the handful of crazy Muslims they can find to justify their own agenda of hate and division. So, it would be far more conducive to focus on the views of the mainstream British Muslims. And I'm sure that most of them are not dangerous. They are decent people just like many of the Christians living there.

I certainly agree, but blaming the image which muslims have is not the media's fault. It's their own. If they didn't breed islamic extremists, then we wouldn't have them in the first place. If your holy book wasn't open to such blatent "misinterpretation" (although I'm not so sure it is) then these extremists wouldn't have an excuse for the crimes they commit.
And I'd love to hear what the views are of mainstream british muslims, but they are segregated from the rest of us for whatever reason so I doubt we'll be hearing it any time soon. Unless they grow the balls and actually start speaking out against these muslim extremists, something I have seen very little of.

There may be a few schools, mosques, clubs, etc. which preach an 'extreme' form of Islam, and while most Muslims do not agree with this small minority, it seems as if their views are spreading further and further and affecting the country more negatively. But, what can you do now? Ban all the faith schools and mosques in the UK? No, but I think it would be a better thing to monitor the kids, especially the Muslim ones, to have a better influence as they are growing up so that there aren't radicalized and that they can be a good British citizen at the same time.

Monitor them? I would much prefer you sorting your religion out for yourself. Why don't muslims ever take responsibility for this kind of thing? Why should the state be responsible for a group of people who are so at odds with what this country is based upon? Like I said in the OP muslims in my opinion need to sort their religion out for themselves. We all hear from, I suppose rational muslims such as you how these 'extremists' are misled, or that they are poorly taught, or some other bullshit excuse. What I want to know is why they are misled in the first place. It's down to the mainstream muslim population to eradicate the bad eggs, and quite simply if you can't do that then don't blame US, or the media for the reputation you are getting.

To many, of course, the spread of Islam is like the spreading of a mental virus. However, I will not argue with that because that is their own view since they don't believe in God and religion in the first place.

I agree with much of what you posted rayaan, I know you don't perhaps have the best position to comment on the muslim population in the UK but it's good to hear from you nontheless.

[DeistPaladin]

They want scanners at airports but do not want to regulate terrorists like the Right-to-Lifers, Jack Daniels and Ingram or Colt.

On a tangent, I'd just like to say that out of respect for the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, we should block the construction of Christian churches within a 100 mile radius of the federal building that Christian terrorist Timothy McVey destroyed.

[Napoléon]

The locals never want to integrate with immigrants; integration is a two-way street. "You can live here but you gotta be like me" is not freedom. It is a different sort of slavery: a slavery to a culture that says "you must be like us."

I don't think it's slavery at all. Do you have a choice about moving to another country? On the whole yes (although I'm sure you'll try and come back with some special case scenario). If you choose to move to another country with a particular culture then I don't think it's too much to ask to at least integrate somewhat with that culture.
Culture is an important part of what makes any country, and to deny that you may as well deny the earth is round. Sure it would be great if we could all just go where we please, and live where we like, and do what we want. But that's not how the world works is it.

Speaking of freedom, the western world has always granted more freedom than anywhere else in this world.

[Anymouse]

They want scanners at airports but do not want to regulate terrorists like the Right-to-Lifers, Jack Daniels and Ingram or Colt.

On a tangent, I'd just like to say that out of respect for the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, we should block the construction of Christian churches within a 100 mile radius of the federal building that Christian terrorist Timothy McVey destroyed.

If they did that, I might actually move back to Oklahoma.

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The locals never want to integrate with immigrants; integration is a two-way street. "You can live here but you gotta be like me" is not freedom. It is a different sort of slavery: a slavery to a culture that says "you must be like us."

I don't think it's slavery at all. Do you have a choice about moving to another country? On the whole yes (although I'm sure you'll try and come back with some special case scenario). If you choose to move to another country with a particular culture then I don't think it's too much to ask to at least integrate somewhat with that culture.
Culture is an important part of what makes any country, and to deny that you may as well deny the earth is round. Sure it would be great if we could all just go where we please, and live where we like, and do what we want. But that's not how the world works is it.

Speaking of freedom, the western world has always granted more freedom than anywhere else in this world.

Special case scenario: So we should go with Bush's idea and strip all atheists of their citizenship, and burn all the Wiccans, since they won't "culturally assimilate?" I don't have a choice about moving if this turns into a theocratic state; most nations' immigration laws specifically prohibit things like people with epilepsy.

If it were mandatory here to take on the cultural mantle, then all atheists here are just as segregated as Muslims in the UK. They just don't wear burqas, though they have "Darwin fish" stickers on their cars and other scary things for the majority Christians to self-identify their religious leanings, no different than a burqa or a crucifix. They generally hang out with their own kind (but, like some racists claim about blacks, "they have some Christian friends"), educate their children not in the culturally Christian way, but in free thought and critical thinking, and enter into suits to remove Ten Commandments monuments from courthouses and Christmas displays, claiming the First Amendment trumps culture.

If cultural assimilation here were seriously pursued, the Establishment Clause would be in tatters and atheists would have their children taken away for abuse (not teaching them about Jesus).

Or do atheists get a free pass while Muslims must toe the line, and Mexicans, Poles, and Irish just have to put up with the racist/nationalistic humour whether they are assimilated or not?

[Epimethean]

Nah, nah, nah. Different saying that one lunatic president who was anointed by gawd should be taken seriously than saying, if you move to the US, you speak fucking English, go to schools that speak English, so not require "extra" provisions for your religion, do not expect your antiquated customs to take precedence over the Constitution, etc, etc.