Trans people & sports

[Catholic_Lady]

To be clear, I don't think someone taking testosterone supplements should be competing against cis women either. For the same reason that it isn't fair to take steroids.

[Amarok]

To be clear, I don't think someone taking testosterone supplements should be competing against cis women either. For the same reason that it isn't fair to take steroids.

Trans people have a medically recognized  justification for needing said supplements that have nothing to do with sport. People who simply take steroids to cheat don't .

[ukatheist]

Imagine a woman athlete. She has a medical disorder which means that her body produces excess testosterone. This results in increased height, muscle mass​ etc. In order to treat her condition, she is prescribed oestrogen. Should she compete as a man, or a woman?

I'd hope most people would agree that she should compete as a woman.

Now imagine the same woman was born with a penis. Should she compete as a man or a woman. Same answer? If not, why?

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[Isis]

Right, well:

There are good points being made by all sides here. I suppose in a very small amount of cases there might be a slight advantage, and any future policy should be decided on a case by case basis, in my opinion. I don't like how easily the words "transphobic" and "bigot" are thrown around these days either, as seen in this very thread.

[Shell B]

You've swung way too far to the left if you can't even bear the idea of people discussing natural inequalities between genders, races, etc. The second the goal is to stymie discussion, you're veering toward authoritarianism. Again, if the conversation bothers anyone to the point where they can't even bear that it is exist, go talk about something else. There is nothing at all wrong with entertaining an idea enough to debate about it.

What about the same subject repeatedly brought up again and again. This isn't exactly a new topic. It's the same bullshit each time. No one ever mentions transmen on testosterone having to fight against
Cisgendered women for example. Or androgen insensitivity or intersex people, it's slways male to female transgendered. There is clearly some other motive for these threads.

I mean, I don't doubt that some people, particularly alphamale, have less than curious reasons for starting these threads, but it doesn't invalidate the conversation. It shouldn't stop people from talking about it. Moreover, I've never spoken about this particular topic in depth, and I'm sure others haven't either.

I'd be happy to talk about transmen having to fight women. I'd be happy to talk about androgen sensitivity. If the conversation isn't the one you want to have, start a new one.

[Tiberius]

I don't think anyone has a right to compete. I do think everyone who competes has a right to a fair competition, which means any unfair advantages should be prohibited.

In the case of male to female transsexuals, they are genetically still male, and have male anatomy (bone structure, size, etc). Males are physically stronger than women in general, which is why we don't have men compete against women. This seems like how we should handle transsexuals competing in order to keep things fair.

[Isis]

I don't think anyone has a right to compete. I do think everyone who competes has a right to a fair competition, which means any unfair advantages should be prohibited.

In the case of male to female transsexuals, they are genetically still male, and have male anatomy (bone structure, size, etc). Males are physically stronger than women in general, which is why we don't have men compete against women. This seems like how we should handle transsexuals competing in order to keep things fair.

How about deciding it on a case by case basis? I don't think it is fair to assume that every MtF has masculine bone structure or that they are strong, etc. You get where I'm going with this.

[Tiberius]

Case by case would be fine as long as people can come to an agreement about where the advantages start and end.

Obviously not all MtF have advantages but the fact that some do cannot just be ignored.

[Tiberius]

At the end of the day, there is a reason why males and females compete in separate competitions. Nowadays I realize that the line between what makes someone male and what makes someone female is more blurred, but the underlying concept of that separation remains the same, and we need to find a way to translate that to the situation we end up with when we have trans athletes.

[Isis]

I think we are more or less in agreement here.