Nobody dies because they don't have access to health care.

[vorlon13]

Aren't people already dying from Obamacare?

For instance, in Arizona, premiums are up well over 100%, how can that not have a similar effect ??

In my own case, the only reason I didn't have much of a premium increase for 2017 (after a 40+% increase the year before) is that they rolled back my coverage. That wasn't my idea, it was IMPOSED on me unbidden. What kind of 'choice' was that?

(I didn't get to keep my doctor either, btw, although so much more crap has accummed since, I tend to gloss over that LIE now)

And for 2018, no coverage at all from my current company, BCBS, and Aetna almost immediately on the BCBS pullout announcement droping coverage too. We're down to Medica (which till the shit hit the fan, I'd never heard of) and what are the odds they'll offer policies in 2018 for me?

(and note, I'm on my 3rd cancer scare since Christmas, find out Tuesday on that) So much of the discussion is theoretical, but it's all too fucking real for me.

[dyresand]

Both sides want the sick to die quickly, kill themselves, pay out the ass for medical insurance and complain about how
no body is doing hard work anymore. The reason why we won't get single payer is a mix of lobbyists and even racism
does play a part into why we won't get it. That and rich people hate the working and poor the same people that is keeping
the economy floating could easily destroy it without really trying. In the mean time i am thinking of starting a American business
that will pay above minimum wage that will probably design and make a Raspberry Pi like device and only using manual human labor.
Hopefully i can design and get a working prototype one day and generate enough interest in it to getting it out to the masses because
we normal people can compete with China we just have to find stuff people 1. people want 2. is american made 3. better than made in china quality.

[Jehanne]

Very true; Hillary was very much a centrist, which is why she almost did not get the Democratic nomination.  But, I think that Trump would have walloped Bernie.  And, so, I think that an electoral loss with a popular vote win was better than losing on both counts, which is what would have happened had Bernie been the nominee.

I disagree, but it's hard to say for certain. We do know Bernie has gone to town halls with Trump supporters, and has gotten applause from them. I do believe Bernie has proven he was the better candidate, through what he's done after he lost. He went to town halls, and passed bills, while Hillary ran off to the woods.

Kind of a moot point if he decides not to run again. Though maybe if the progressives take over the party in 2018, then he may run again.

Don't get me wrong; I LOVE Bernie!!!

[Chad32]

Sorry. I got a little used to Min's vitriol, so it irks me if people say he wouldn't have stood a chance. I would have appreciated the DNC trying, instead of pushing Hillary. We know what Bernie stands for, but the DN and Hillary don't really stand for anything beyond being not quite as bad as the other party.

[dyresand]

Sorry. I got a little used to Min's vitriol, so it irks me if people say he wouldn't have stood a chance. I would have appreciated the DNC trying, instead of pushing Hillary. We know what Bernie stands for, but the DN and Hillary don't really stand for anything beyond being not quite as bad as the other party.

Chad...Hillary is running again in 2020 
she didnt learn the first time running against Obama
didnt learn the second time running against Trump  literally anybody/anything including a moldy piece of toast 
the shit that you find under the refrigerator would have won. She blames everyone else for her lost except for herself 
the "democratic firewall" failed because she failed them she failed the people simply put. The problem is unless she can 
somehow politically speaking work with the people instead of against them she will win next time otherwise this whole 
stand behind her/im with her thing will never work. She came out again saying she is a progressive (which she isnt) 
and started a whole new thing that's like together or what ever.. the problem with the movement she started it's not really for the people it's only for donors
and big money interests and she is trying to get the young vote (which she lost). The rich don't clearly understand the status quo is dead
the american dream is dead it's dead because of their policies and it's dead because they keep failing the people who put them in power in the first place. 
Bernie would have won he is the only popular senator in the United States hands down. There is things i can criticize him on like his stand on Palestine and Isreal
it needs to come to a resolution with a 2 state deal we need to leave the  middle east put more back at home into the economy and start working on green energy.

[vorlon13]

Those 'kids' demonstrating for Bernie at the entrance to the Southern Hills Mall on that freezing winter day in early 2016 continue to haunt me.

Hard to imagine them having much more continued sympathy than I do for the Democrat party after the unfair reaming they took.

Why the fuck a third party isn't fucking viable here is a total mystery. There's 'pubs been fucked raw too, and maybe more in the pipeline, why isn't a third party gestating right now and getting poised to 'seize' 40 seats in the House and 10 in the Senate in 2018 ??

[Chad32]

Sorry. I got a little used to Min's vitriol, so it irks me if people say he wouldn't have stood a chance. I would have appreciated the DNC trying, instead of pushing Hillary. We know what Bernie stands for, but the DN and Hillary don't really stand for anything beyond being not quite as bad as the other party.

Chad...Hillary is running again in 2020 
she didnt learn the first time running against Obama
didnt learn the second time running against Trump  literally anybody/anything including a moldy piece of toast 
the shit that you find under the refrigerator would have won. She blames everyone else for her lost except for herself 
the "democratic firewall" failed because she failed them she failed the people simply put. The problem is unless she can 
somehow politically speaking work with the people instead of against them she will win next time otherwise this whole 
stand behind her/im with her thing will never work. She came out again saying she is a progressive (which she isnt) 
and started a whole new thing that's like together or what ever.. the problem with the movement she started it's not really for the people it's only for donors
and big money interests and she is trying to get the young vote (which she lost). The rich don't clearly understand the status quo is dead
the american dream is dead it's dead because of their policies and it's dead because they keep failing the people who put them in power in the first place. 
Bernie would have won he is the only popular senator in the United States hands down. There is things i can criticize him on like his stand on Palestine and Isreal
it needs to come to a resolution with a 2 state deal we need to leave the  middle east put more back at home into the economy and start working on green energy.

I know all of this stuff already. I do think he dropped the ball, signing that statement about Israel and Palestine. That we can say something against. I just don't want to hear people say he couldn't have beaten Trump, because he could have.

[Tiberius]

Or life a life our beloved Representative would hate. One of my cousins was born with a cleft palette. He had it fixed because his parents were on welfare. They were also staunch Republicans because Democrats believe in welfare.

It never ceases to amaze me how many poor people are Republicans!

It doesn't amaze me. They've been sold the lie that by working hard they can get rich, and once they are rich why shouldn't they be able to keep as much of their money as possible, after all, they worked hard for it.

Of course the majority of them will work hard and never get rich. Meanwhile people like me who recognizes that I was able to take advantage of a lot of social programs in order to get a well paid job are more than happy to pay more of their salary so that more people can use social programs.

[dyresand]

It never ceases to amaze me how many poor people are Republicans!

It doesn't amaze me. They've been sold the lie that by working hard they can get rich, and once they are rich why shouldn't they be able to keep as much of their money as possible, after all, they worked hard for it.

Of course the majority of them will work hard and never get rich. Meanwhile people like me who recognizes that I was able to take advantage of a lot of social programs in order to get a well paid job are more than happy to pay more of their salary so that more people can use social programs.

Hard work doesn't matter anymore the harder you work you still get paid the same it doesn't matter if you work hard anymore.

[vorlon13]

Jesus fucking Christ:

catching up on stack of newspapers and read article on Medica (Thursday May 4 Omaha World Herald, page 3D) and at the time Medica (only remaining purveyor of ACA policies in IA and NE) is considering pulling out.

Literally put newspaper down (in disgust) and in next moment hear on news they're out now.


OK, this is serious, midnite 12/31/2017 I don't have health insurance. And this is following 3 cancer scares since Christmas.

Fuck.