There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven

[Brian37]

The title of the thread is like arguing there is a difference between Luke Skywalker's robe and Yoda's robe.

[Harry Nevis]

Babble babble.  Do you think we care?

babble babbler, to those who keep making the same theological argument over and over about being born a christian is the only way to be saved... They might want to consider how foolish they sound. To those who think that their Christianity saves them... they too might want to consider how foolish they sound. To everyone else there should be some comfort to know that their will be a just judgement, not a judgement based on worse like, Muslim homosexual suicide, sinner excommunicated...

Who has said the only way to be saved is to be born a christian?  Citation for your bullshit, please.

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if you don't believe then why argue? if you argue then why insist on arguing the strawman in the room? why not address actual biblical points? or is that all you have left? argue the strawman so you can win???

Because brain dead idiots like you are pushing laws to protect fairy tale believers from getting butt hurt when called on your lies.

[Drich]

Why doesn't God keep his promises then?

What promise did God make you that He did not keep? Is God obligated to keep a promise that you alter or misunderstand?

Why is his book full of things that we know are not true?

like what?

Why does he approve of things we no longer consider moral?

because we are a sinful people and like it says in revelation what once was Good will now be considered evil and what once as evil will be considered good. in other words our society is declining.

Why does he only reveal himself to some but not others?

because the 'others' do not seek God as He is, but who they want God to be. So then if a believer believes God to be a wish granting genie, who trades good deeds for granted wishes, but in truth God is a master looking for slaves/servants at first who he can then later invest in and mold into sons and daughters? Why then would he reinforce the genie version of God if that is only going to case you theological problems???

Rather Jesus explained it beautifully in the parable of the wise and foolish builders. the wise man who builds on God will have his house/building tested with trials and because his theology/faith is right he will know God is what he thinks he is. while the foolish man can build an identicl house/faith life/do the same things as the wise man, but not on the truth of God and all that the foolish man builds falls flat.

If you do not know God after trying, you built your house on sand. So God knocked it over for you so as to not have an untrue vision of Him.

Why doesn't he make it simple for us all to know he exists, even if we then chose to reject him?

how much more simple can it be than to A/S/K as outlined in luke 11. either you ask seek and knock as the parable outlines or you do not.

Most only ask and seek but do not hang in long enough to repeat the process. we repeat over and over because it takes time for the wind and rain to wash away bad theology.

Why does he reveal himself in ancient languages that are subject to interpretation and change?

So to keep obsessive compulsive church leaders for giving power to his actual words like one would a chant or incantation.

Why is a Damascus road revelation good enough for Saul/Paul but not the rest of us?

I had a similar experience.. wasn't struck blind, but was sent to Hell for persecuting and taunting Christians... Pray whatever it takes to know ou will and the fire/strength to carry it out. ask for that over and over see what happens.

Why does God's morality change?

You just pointed out our does. what are you talking about?

Why has he been reduced into an increasing god of the gaps by further scientific enquiry?

because 'science' has a catch all term to explain God away. it's call an anomaly. or do you honestly believe that everyone who enters a hospital sick but leaves well owe their wellness to the great and powerful 'science?'

Why do his followers still do immoral things?

Because there is not a lick of difference between us and you. we are ALL SLAVES TO SIN. Which we all sin all the time. We simply acknowledgment it before Christ and ask for mercy rather than make an excuse of it. (shouldnt have made me this way dad)

Why is he silent despite requests?

Because God never said He would ever honor petitions. Only prayers. Prayer are about changing us an how we receive and understand God. petitions are wishes essentially. God is not a Genie

Why does he require worship and enjoy the master/slave relationship?

Because in truth if you understand that nothing we have is ours, but an extention of what is already his... then that makes us poorer than poor. and in truth that makes us indebted to Him. Not that we could ever repay. But the mere idea should humble us enough to cast ourselves before him as a slave. (not a 19th black man in a cotton field in the south united states.) but think of what happened ultimately to Joseph the guy just under pharaoh #2 in all of Egypt, Moses the leader of the Jews, Abraham the Father of them all. I considered myself a slave for a long time, and now while not yet a son I have been promoted up the family line one or twice.

How do you know he is moral if you unable to be certain of your own moral compass?

He is not moral if man's morality is our guide. God is simply righteous.

Why would we believe things that science has shown to be wrong?

like what evolution? what if I could move three or four verses in Genesis 1 (not change a word of what is written) and start Genesis two in a new pace that will us a whole new understand of creation. One that can absorb all of evolution between the end of the seventh day, and the fall of man.

How do you know you are not talking to yourself or an immoral being?

Because when God talks back what He says can always be vetted in scripture. nothing will ever contradict. for instance to my trip in Hell, I saw and learned things I never knew. as I only had a dante's inferno's understanding of Hell. It took several years but I can not back everything I saw and experienced. which completely changed my understanding of Hell.

How is vicarious redemption fair?

How is a man jumping on a grenade that saves his buddies, fair? it's not. That my friend is called love.

Why can't you meet your burden of proof, a perfect being should easily do that?

If I could produce God at will then I would be God. However I can give you directions where to meet God on His terms.

Why do humans of other religions not counter the idea that this is all human made and how could you show the difference?

different promises. different things they seek in a deity.

How come your religion is not unified if the truth is so self evident?

Because God boiled all of Christianity down to 2 rules. Love God with all you being. Love neighbor as self. Now in worship to simply love God with all your being is a broad command. So what if God gave me awesome singing voice and the talent to play any instrument I want. but was not so good with long boring lectures??? would I be following God's command by never being able to use my music to worship God? no that is in direct violation of the love we are to have for God. so the church schisms. and because we are all a little different those differences can add up.. they add up enough and the church needs to break again. Paul described this as being one body/church, with many parts. also note this was the idea from the beginning. as if you read the letters Paul wrote to the different churches they are about different things different methods of worship. why because they are for a lack of a better term slightly different denominations.

How come personal revelations vary between dominations, and why should anybody think they are relevant?

because the 'revelation a hand need will fit them like a glove, and the revelation a sole church or a 'foot needs will fit like a sock. different people different needs. a foot can't say to a hand your gifts are useless because they are not shoes, and like wise a hand can't say to a foot because you don't have form fitting gloves your gifts do not help the over all body of the church.

Why should the popularity of an idea contribute to its veracity?

where/when is this true?

Why should vague prophecy be compelling, other cultures have them by the bucketloads too?

I'm pretty sure when revelations starts to unfold there will be no BS/Doubt.

Why are miracles growing less impressive by the decade as science explains more and liars and the confused are exposed?

it's that science word again.. "anomaly." It simply sweep all miracles under the scientific rug.

How does a scapegoat make morality justified?

dont know what you mean... morality has nothing to do with God's righteousness. as such our 'worthiness' before God has nothing to do if we adhere to the law or not.

How could science explore the supernatural, and how does that counter any modern theory?

by defination it can not. Science can only grasp and compare unknown to known elements. supernatural is completely unknown. which is why they came up with the word anomaly. It is the new god of the gaps without having to explain the god or the gap science can not currently cover.

The list goes on and on and I could add more.

so could I

Atheism is the idea that Theism hasn't achieved its burden of proof.

that's not true. atheist is the effort to continualy shift the burden of proof... just watch how you will continually raise the bar to my answers till you give up and start name calling.

I want to know how theism can meet that, and it never has.....

As I pointed out in just my answers, you will endevor to raise the bar invalidating what I offered.

Cue oft rebutted nonsense once more,

I want the clincher; again, I will be told I don't ask in the right way or with the right 'spirit'

Colour me unsurprised.

wut???

[Neo-Scholastic]

Why doesn't God keep his promises then?...

---

Why is his book full of things that we know are not true?

Why does he approve of things we no longer consider moral?

Why does he only reveal himself to some but not others?

Why doesn't he make it simple for us all to know he exists, even if we then chose to reject him?

Why does he reveal himself in ancient languages that are subject to interpretation and change?

Why is a Damascus road revelation good enough for Saul/Paul but not the rest of us?

Why does God's morality change?

Why has he been reduced into an increasing god of the gaps by further scientific enquiry?

Why do his followers still do immoral things?

Why is he silent despite requests?

Why does he require worship and enjoy the master/slave relationship?

How do you know he is moral if you unable to be certain of your own moral compass?

Why would we believe things that science has shown to be wrong?

How do you know you are not talking to yourself or an immoral being?

How is vicarious redemption fair?

Why can't you meet your burden of proof, a perfect being should easily do that?

Why do humans of other religions not counter the idea that this is all human made and how could you show the difference?

How come your religion is not unified if the truth is so self evident?

How come personal revelations vary between dominations, and why should anybody think they are relevant?

Why should the popularity of an idea contribute to its veracity?

Why should vague prophecy be compelling, other cultures have them by the bucketloads too?

Why are miracles growing less impressive by the decade as science explains more and liars and the confused are exposed?

How does a scapegoat make morality justified?

How could science explore the supernatural, and how does that counter any modern theory?

The list goes on and on and I could add more.

Atheism is the idea that Theism hasn't achieved its burden of proof.

I want to know how theism can meet that, and it never has.....

Cue oft rebutted nonsense once more,

I want the clincher; again, I will be told I don't ask in the right way or with the right 'spirit'

Colour me unsurprised.

---

TL;DR

[downbeatplumb]

Homer Simpson is god.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta3rjuAv9eA

Better than anything the D guy puts on the forum.

[JackRussell]

Why doesn't God keep his promises then?...

---

Why is his book full of things that we know are not true?

Why does he approve of things we no longer consider moral?

Why does he only reveal himself to some but not others?

Why doesn't he make it simple for us all to know he exists, even if we then chose to reject him?

Why does he reveal himself in ancient languages that are subject to interpretation and change?

Why is a Damascus road revelation good enough for Saul/Paul but not the rest of us?

Why does God's morality change?

Why has he been reduced into an increasing god of the gaps by further scientific enquiry?

Why do his followers still do immoral things?

Why is he silent despite requests?

Why does he require worship and enjoy the master/slave relationship?

How do you know he is moral if you unable to be certain of your own moral compass?

Why would we believe things that science has shown to be wrong?

How do you know you are not talking to yourself or an immoral being?

How is vicarious redemption fair?

Why can't you meet your burden of proof, a perfect being should easily do that?

Why do humans of other religions not counter the idea that this is all human made and how could you show the difference?

How come your religion is not unified if the truth is so self evident?

How come personal revelations vary between dominations, and why should anybody think they are relevant?

Why should the popularity of an idea contribute to its veracity?

Why should vague prophecy be compelling, other cultures have them by the bucketloads too?

Why are miracles growing less impressive by the decade as science explains more and liars and the confused are exposed?

How does a scapegoat make morality justified?

How could science explore the supernatural, and how does that counter any modern theory?

The list goes on and on and I could add more.

Atheism is the idea that Theism hasn't achieved its burden of proof.

I want to know how theism can meet that, and it never has.....

Cue oft rebutted nonsense once more,

I want the clincher; again, I will be told I don't ask in the right way or with the right 'spirit'

Colour me unsurprised.

---

TL;DR

Fine, short request:

Show me the money.

[Drich]

if you don't believe then why argue?

Cos some folks insist on repeatedly throwing ancient scripture and other such preachy bollocks into an atheist forum.

It's why we are here numbnuts and you know that. We are your demons.

oh you mean in the Christianity sub section where the discussion is centered around idk CHRISTIANITY?!?!?!?!

So again tard-by IF you want to play discuss Christianity why not discuss actual Christianity and not the straw man bs you keep pretending with?

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The Bible plainly says that no one goes to heaven.  So since it's part of the fairy tale it must be true.

that's not true. We all don't get to go. that part is.

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The only fuck-face on here I have on my ignore list, wow, congrats, Drips, I haven't even bothered doing that to Gullible Cretin or Rikkle Shit.

But exactly what part of any of that (which I only saw because someone quoted you) is meant to make any of what you're selling sound in any way appealing, or make your gods sound in any way not like the worst characters ever conceived of?

I would take the tme to answer you proper... but you won't actually get to see it, me being blocked and all.

[drfuzzy]

Yawn.  Hail Ahura Mazda.  Why in the hell would anyone care?  There is no god, there is no hell, there is no heaven.

[Brian37]

Cos some folks insist on repeatedly throwing ancient scripture and other such preachy bollocks into an atheist forum.

It's why we are here numbnuts and you know that. We are your demons.

oh you mean in the Christianity sub section where the discussion is centered around idk CHRISTIANITY?!?!?!?!

So again tard-by IF you want to play discuss Christianity why not discuss actual Christianity and not the straw man bs you keep pretending with?

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The Bible plainly says that no one goes to heaven.  So since it's part of the fairy tale it must be true.

that's not true. We all don't get to go. that part is.

Who gives a fuck? 7 billion humans currently, not counting the fact that on average 1 billion people DIE every 20 years worldwide. Seems to me a lot of waste and a severe lack of efficiency for a perfect and all powerful God. 

And you assume that everyone would want to go. No sorry, according to the mythology of that book, and considering how he behaves like a narcissistic asshole to even Adam and Eve using them in a rigged bet they were not aware of and had no say in, considering he committed mass genocide with the flood and at the end of the book acts like a childish brat who smashes the XBox when his players don't do what he wants, nope, there is no way I would want to hang out with such a selfish asshole bully.

[J a c k]

Lol a Drich preachy thread. It's been years, dude. You're persistent. I'll give you that.