There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven

[Astonished]

You know what, this actually gave me an idea for a second bit to add to my signature. So something good did come out of this thread.

Also find it hilarious that after I explicitly mentioned Drich being on my ignore list, the jackass thinks I can (or would bother to) read his reply to my question. If there was a worthwhile answer to any question about religion, nobody would be an atheist.

[Drich]

oh you mean in the Christianity sub section where the discussion is centered around idk CHRISTIANITY?!?!?!?!

So again tard-by IF you want to play discuss Christianity why not discuss actual Christianity and not the straw man bs you keep pretending with?

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that's not true. We all don't get to go. that part is.

Who gives a fuck? 7 billion humans currently, not counting the fact that on average 1 billion people DIE every 20 years worldwide. Seems to me a lot of waste and a severe lack of efficiency for a perfect and all powerful God. 

but then why does the world have to be perfect? We were given the world to rule over, and subsequently we gave the world to satan to rule over us so that we may have our 'moral sins.'

And you assume that everyone would want to go.

Of course not everyone wants to go. As not all are of God. Satan's seed also walk among us. for sure they do not want to go.

No sorry, according to the mythology of that book, and considering how he behaves like a narcissistic asshole to even

Narcissist= someone who has an erotic interest in one's self. This use to describe someone who has masturbated. If you want to get technical, you more closely follow the direction of a narcissist than God does "According to the mythology of that book." As God has never shown sexual interest in himself.

Adam and Eve using them in a rigged bet they were not aware of and had no say in,

Are you quoting the bible according to brian? Because I remember no bet. maybe you are think about Job.

considering he committed mass genocide with the flood

and if the world was covered in a mutant hybrid, beyond evil beyond redemption, that had infected everyone? if you are going to use the bible to condemn God you must also use the stated reasons God did what he did as well.

and at the end of the book acts like a childish brat who smashes the XBox when his players don't do what he wants, nope

What I see is a God who smashes the people who would take the xbox from his children.

there is no way I would want to hang out with such a selfish asshole bully.

If I were slated to be smashed I wouldn't want anything to do with God either. However I'm not, and I do.

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To be honest, he created this thread in reference to something mentioned in another thread.

What I mean is that he's persistent in even putting in effort here. I mean damn! Lol

5 years 10,000+ posts. yeah the returns aren't great but they're still there.

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Oh, you're right.  I find Yahweh to be a despicable monster.  I also find Yahweh to be the fictitious construct of a bunch of ignorant, brutal savages.

uh,no. this line

I find Yahweh to be a despicable monster.

says you on some level has accepted the personage of God and see Him apart from the construct of God as you first person singularly identified God and his crimes against your sensibilities. This means You blame a deity. If you fully accepted that their was no deity then the blame would shift to the indivisuals who keep this deity going. Which you try to do in the 2nd half of the sentence, but throughout your work when you mention god you mean God not the construct of evil people. for example:

 The only reason for using the wholly babble to slam the Old War Demon Rapist Genocidal Sky Daddy is that verses from that repulsive book of fairy tales are the only thing brainwashed xtians MIGHT listen to.  And if they don't listen, at least some of them are sentient enough to realize that they shouldn't be pushing me to believe in their imaginary friend.

Here "Sky daddy" is the evil monster who wars and genocide you hate, which is separate from the mundane christian who maybe smart enough not to try and convert you. Now if 'Sky Daddy" was a construct of man then in your story His evil would have to be transferred to the believers. After all if 'sky daddy' is evil and not real then it is those who worship that are evil. But you have seperated the evil and awarded it to God. Which means again on some level you acknowledge God

Arguing about religious beliefs does not mean I believe any of those religious beliefs or stand a snowballs chance in your non-existent hell of converting.

 But again if you are going to argue those beliefs then why not actually argue what is believed rather that the BS you use to prop each other up?

There is nothing written in your wholly babble that is any more relevant to my real life than a kids book about sparkly vampires.

I found the oppsite to be true... Maybe that is why I am where I am.

 I do not believe in the existence of any gods, no heaven, no hell, no satan, no allah, no vishnu - no gods.  I MIGHT change my mind if a deity showed up and proved it existed, but that still wouldn't mean it was worthy of anyone's worship.

If a deity showed up and prooved himself to you then wouldn't make you the supreme being? If God bends to your will then are you not superior to God? Now if God claims to be the alpha and omega, then by his very nature He will not do that, but rather tell you how to meet up with Him. That He has done. I have followed those directions and I found God as promised.
[/quote]

[Drich]

So to keep obsessive compulsive church leaders for giving power to his actual words like one would a chant or incantation.

Wuuuuut? Shut the front door! GTFO!

Bible-based assertion or your own personal deduction?

deduction. because church leaders (both jewish and christian) try and assign power to the literal words of Christ/the bible. Jesus frowned upon this practice with the pharisees. Mix that with the fact that the bible never makes the claim of infaliblity, much less to be a book of incantations, the direction of God is clear.

I'm familiar with the folklore stating that the knowledge and speaking of a being's true name gives one vast and terrible power over said individual;

That's some old-school hocus-pocus magic right there. Pre-dates Christianity, for certain. Is that where you got this notion from?

no.

Anyhow, if you believe this to be case, then what's up with your god, Drich? Why would an omnipotent being be so concerned with folks jacking his POWER, that he would deliberately see to his own Word being muddled and convoluted in an effort to prevent random MF's off of the street from wielding it?

I'm saying the oppsite. God is not worried about such nonsense. He simply does not want us following down the path of spiritual leaders who look to empower themselves with such nonsense... Not that this type of thing is completely without merrit. there are demons who entertain themselves with such people, and the weaker are consumed by them. God is just trying to keep the retards of the faith from playing in the tiger enclosure if you know what I mean.

Do you actually even believe him to be omnipotent?

yes

I don't see how your Biblical God character's actions can be interpreted as such. Been around the block the longest? Sure. Knows a lot, can do a lot; much, much more than anyone else. Sure, sure. 
But, not everything. And not anything.

What's your take on that?

why not?

Again alpha and omega means His want/will comes first. meaning if course a allows a million people to heaven but 250,000 die as a result, but course b allows 100K to come to heaven but 1,000,000 are lost forever even though they all live to be 100, then why would God chose course b?

It's all a matter of perspective. to you this life is king, to God eternity is where it is at. His choices echo and populate eternity while ours center around this vapor of a life and trying to get a couple more milliseconds out of it.

[Harry Nevis]

No sorry, according to the mythology of that book, and considering how he behaves like a narcissistic asshole to even

Narcissist= someone who has an erotic interest in one's self. This use to describe someone who has masturbated. If you want to get technical, you more closely follow the direction of a narcissist than God does "According to the mythology of that book." As God has never shown sexual interest in himself.

Erotic?! the fact that you equate sexuality with narcissism says a lot about you.

[Drich]

The OP at least had some thought put into it. Points for good Christian theology that a lot of Christians don't get.

(had to read like 10 times looking for the jab/hidden gotcha meaning)

Not only that, because they don't get this point in their theology it can be used by an atheist to further tear down a bad or broken faith. Most can not reconcile Christ alone and the works of Jesus they think it is two different religions. Christ alone gets you to heaven. Works like here puts money in your pocket to spend in heaven. We do not all enter on some socialist equal paying field.

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Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:
The Bible plainly says that no one goes to heaven.  So since it's part of the fairy tale it must be true.
__________
that's not true. We all don't get to go. that part is.

According to the fairy tale it says in John 3:13 (CEV) = "No one has gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from there."
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%203:13

Has = from that point looking back to eternity past.

The word you are looking for is "will" Meaning from that point to eternity future.

[The Grand Nudger]

I expect that you might be more than a little pissed to share a cubicle with me in heaven, but thems the breaks.  See you in our next shitty job, under our next shitty boss.  

[Brian37]

Wuuuuut? Shut the front door! GTFO!

Bible-based assertion or your own personal deduction?

deduction. because church leaders (both jewish and christian) try and assign power to the literal words of Christ/the bible. Jesus frowned upon this practice with the pharisees. Mix that with the fact that the bible never makes the claim of infaliblity, much less to be a book of incantations, the direction of God is clear.

I'm familiar with the folklore stating that the knowledge and speaking of a being's true name gives one vast and terrible power over said individual;

That's some old-school hocus-pocus magic right there. Pre-dates Christianity, for certain. Is that where you got this notion from?

no.

Anyhow, if you believe this to be case, then what's up with your god, Drich? Why would an omnipotent being be so concerned with folks jacking his POWER, that he would deliberately see to his own Word being muddled and convoluted in an effort to prevent random MF's off of the street from wielding it?

I'm saying the oppsite. God is not worried about such nonsense. He simply does not want us following down the path of spiritual leaders who look to empower themselves with such nonsense... Not that this type of thing is completely without merrit. there are demons who entertain themselves with such people, and the weaker are consumed by them. God is just trying to keep the retards of the faith from playing in the tiger enclosure if you know what I mean.

Do you actually even believe him to be omnipotent?

yes

I don't see how your Biblical God character's actions can be interpreted as such. Been around the block the longest? Sure. Knows a lot, can do a lot; much, much more than anyone else. Sure, sure. 
But, not everything. And not anything.

What's your take on that?

why not?

Again alpha and omega means His want/will comes first. meaning if course a allows a million people to heaven but 250,000 die as a result, but course b allows 100K to come to heaven but 1,000,000 are lost forever even though they all live to be 100, then why would God chose course b?

It's all a matter of perspective. to you this life is king, to God eternity is where it is at. His choices echo and populate eternity while ours center around this vapor of a life and trying to get a couple more milliseconds out of it.

1. You have ZERO evidence your claimed God exists.

2. I am nobody's puppet regardless. 

Kim Jong Un also says he and his family's will comes first, I wouldn't want to be under that fucker's rule either. 

If you enjoy needlessly subjecting yourself to mind slavery, I cannot legally stop you, but you are not going to peddle that crap to me.

[Drich]

what a stupid question. especially from someone who will argue tooth and nail about the morality of the God of the bible, but then pretend she is above such a discussion?

AGAIN, So you can argue the actual Christianity bit, and not the straw man crap you guys keep repeating.

What "straw man?" If you think you have any more evidence for your magic baby myth than Muslims have for Allah or Jews have for Yahweh or Hindus have for Bhrama or Visnu, keep deluding yourself.

But again, if you want to go the morality route, nope sorry, the character as depicted in the bible you call God is a petty narcissistic bully and an insecure one at that.

Strawman= a subject matter of your own design, that is easy for you to attack, rather than addressing the subject matter being discussed.

Here the thing moron.. Subject matter (the term) does not lend itself to any checks or balances concerning authenticity. meaning the subject being discussed does not have to be the truth as YOU see it. it must simply conform to the context of the discussion.

Do you understand? In other words tony stark does not have to be "real" for us to have a iron man discussion. However because iron man is not real dos not mean you can just make shit up and tell people this is what iron man is. Even if you believe it to be 100% fiction there is still cannon. Cannon being a standard from which Ironman must be discussed, or otherwise the B/S you come up with can be dismissed as a strawman.

Do you get it douche bag? or should I have used my little poni instead bro-nei

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You know what, this actually gave me an idea for a second bit to add to my signature. So something good did come out of this thread.

Also find it hilarious that after I explicitly mentioned Drich being on my ignore list, the jackass thinks I can (or would bother to) read his reply to my question. If there was a worthwhile answer to any question about religion, nobody would be an atheist.

That's not true. Anytime someone want to smeckle into anything besides his wife knish, you will have to have atheism/kill God in your mind in order to feel justified in that act.

Atheism is not about answers. it is about moving goal posts so that God can never be found.

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No sorry, according to the mythology of that book, and considering how he behaves like a narcissistic asshole to even

Narcissist= someone who has an erotic interest in one's self. This use to describe someone who has masturbated. If you want to get technical, you more closely follow the direction of a narcissist than God does "According to the mythology of that book." As God has never shown sexual interest in himself.

Erotic?! the fact that you equate sexuality with narcissism says a lot about you.

Psychoanalysis. a person who suffers from narcissism, deriving erotic gratification from admiration of his or her own physical or mental attributes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Ah... My mistake.. You were working from the URBAN Dictionary
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph...Narcissist

You weren't talkn bout da foreelz meaning yo.. You wuz mean'n the made up mean'n of da word... I gotta next time bruh..

douche

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I expect that you might be more than a little pissed to share a cubicle with me in heaven, but thems the breaks.  See you in our next shitty job, under our next shitty boss.  

yeah I was hoping to by a star ship with my potential earnings and shat-ner across the universe... The problem here is that I probably piss God off more than most of you guys.. So I imagine if there is this big public housing project/building where 'good atheist' go.. I'm probably going to be the guy who collects the government checks and fixes the toilets. At least then I could evict a few of you if you get out of hand...

Now it just dawned on me/thanks to you, I could be just another resident and have to ride the bus and share a cubical with you all....
Then I wake up in the Captain's ready room just off the bridge on my star Ship the Millennium Enterprise! Which is similar to the enterprise D, but the saucer section has been replaced with a well adapted/properly scaled Millennium falcon.

Chewy, Make it so!

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1. You have ZERO evidence your claimed God exists.

That's not true. I sat down next to a messenger of God, and He laid out my whole life past present and future, gave me direction, read my mind, put me all back to gether and sent me on my way... Which was only the first of many many experiences. all of which are not unique to me. God offers everyoe who needs this, this same attention. Just gotta do it his way not your own.

2. I am nobody's puppet regardless. 

God is not looking for puppets. He is looking for slaves.

Seriously He is but not the slaves of man/How man treats slaves But people like me to work hard, and reinvest and reinvest till we have built a sizable kingdom, then welcomes us in as family and turns over that Kingdom to use to be worked and ran in His name. This story repeats over and over through the history of the jews.

Kim Jong Un also says he and his family's will comes first, I wouldn't want to be under that fucker's rule either. 

because He like you are evil man. You know what He could do because it is well with in your scope to imagne doing it to someone. You are a designed purposed assembly of a larger componet or machine. You have one purpose in all of this universe and untill you find it you will never know contentment and joy. God knows that purpose and can plug you in to what it is you will find the most joy in. We think that happiness can be found in drug or sex or money... no these are but distractions to mask the lack of joy we were designed to generate and have flow through us to others.

I experienced this joy for but a moment and long to return to it. The point? Unless you find and harness the endless joy we have been designed to be a conduit for you will need constant diversion constant sirts of happiness to help mask the emptiness inside of you. And that is why you don't want to be a puppet. you don't ant to let go the things that bring you happiness, because that masks your true emptiness.

What if you didn't have to give up anything you did not want to give up?

The God of the bible through grace is patent. Not that you don't need to change, he can wait with you so long as you keep growning till you genuinely want change.

If you enjoy needlessly subjecting yourself to mind slavery, I cannot legally stop you, but you are not going to peddle that crap to me.

Look at the slaves of God. Start with Joseph. Yes he had a rough start with his 12 brothers, but in the end God was able to use Him and placed him in control of all of Egypt just under pharaoh. Joseph only answered to pharroah and God. His word has authority over all of israel and his brothers and all over egypt as if the pharoah Himself gave the orders. But still a slave of God.

Then Moses. Yes another difficult start but then what a general and father of a nation responsible for the fall of the 2nd dynasty of egypt, yet a slave.

David, a man after God's own heart. as a boy David learned to trust God so completely He faced lions and bears, and then was placed before a literal giant to defeat him and a whole army! Then As a slave of God was places as King!! over all 12 tribes.

In every example God shapes and purposed his slaves for great and glorious things. It is the difference between a raw diamond and a flawless 20 karat princess cut diamond. yes at the core both have a given potential and a intrinsic value, but it is the polished and cut stone that demands the greatest value why? because all the impurities and the imperfections have been removed or polished away. So anyone can see it's perfection. That is what those rough start were all about. That is why God seeks a slave. one who can not run when things get tough.. And when a slave completes his task God makes them kings. He calls us into His family..
As i have always said. slavery is little more than a word. it is God's word that has a complete different meaning. If you look to truth you will find that meaning. if you look to hate God you will apply your own understand to that word that allows you to close your mind to anything anyone has to say.

[drfuzzy]

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Who gives a fuck? 7 billion humans currently, not counting the fact that on average 1 billion people DIE every 20 years worldwide. Seems to me a lot of waste and a severe lack of efficiency for a perfect and all powerful God.

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but then why does the world have to be perfect? We were given the world to rule over, and subsequently we gave the world to satan to rule over us so that we may have our 'moral sins.'

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And you assume that everyone would want to go.

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Of course not everyone wants to go. As not all are of God. Satan's seed also walk among us. for sure they do not want to go.

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No sorry, according to the mythology of that book, and considering how he behaves like a narcissistic asshole to even

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Narcissist= someone who has an erotic interest in one's self. This use to describe someone who has masturbated. If you want to get technical, you more closely follow the direction of a narcissist than God does "According to the mythology of that book." As God has never shown sexual interest in himself.

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Adam and Eve using them in a rigged bet they were not aware of and had no say in,

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Are you quoting the bible according to brian? Because I remember no bet. maybe you are think about Job.

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considering he committed mass genocide with the flood

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and if the world was covered in a mutant hybrid, beyond evil beyond redemption, that had infected everyone? if you are going to use the bible to condemn God you must also use the stated reasons God did what he did as well.

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and at the end of the book acts like a childish brat who smashes the XBox when his players don't do what he wants, nope

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What I see is a God who smashes the people who would take the xbox from his children.

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there is no way I would want to hang out with such a selfish asshole bully.

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If I were slated to be smashed I wouldn't want anything to do with God either. However I'm not, and I do.

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What I mean is that he's persistent in even putting in effort here. I mean damn! Lol

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5 years 10,000+ posts. yeah the returns aren't great but they're still there.

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Oh, you're right.  I find Yahweh to be a despicable monster.  I also find Yahweh to be the fictitious construct of a bunch of ignorant, brutal savages.

uh,no. this line

I find Yahweh to be a despicable monster.

says you on some level has accepted the personage of God and see Him apart from the construct of God as you first person singularly identified God and his crimes against your sensibilities. This means You blame a deity. If you fully accepted that their was no deity then the blame would shift to the indivisuals who keep this deity going. Which you try to do in the 2nd half of the sentence, but throughout your work when you mention god you mean God not the construct of evil people. for example:

 The only reason for using the wholly babble to slam the Old War Demon Rapist Genocidal Sky Daddy is that verses from that repulsive book of fairy tales are the only thing brainwashed xtians MIGHT listen to.  And if they don't listen, at least some of them are sentient enough to realize that they shouldn't be pushing me to believe in their imaginary friend.

Here "Sky daddy" is the evil monster who wars and genocide you hate, which is separate from the mundane christian who maybe smart enough not to try and convert you. Now if 'Sky Daddy" was a construct of man then in your story His evil would have to be transferred to the believers. After all if 'sky daddy' is evil and not real then it is those who worship that are evil. But you have seperated the evil and awarded it to God. Which means again on some level you acknowledge God

Arguing about religious beliefs does not mean I believe any of those religious beliefs or stand a snowballs chance in your non-existent hell of converting.

 But again if you are going to argue those beliefs then why not actually argue what is believed rather that the BS you use to prop each other up?

There is nothing written in your wholly babble that is any more relevant to my real life than a kids book about sparkly vampires.

I found the oppsite to be true... Maybe that is why I am where I am.

 I do not believe in the existence of any gods, no heaven, no hell, no satan, no allah, no vishnu - no gods.  I MIGHT change my mind if a deity showed up and proved it existed, but that still wouldn't mean it was worthy of anyone's worship.

If a deity showed up and prooved himself to you then wouldn't make you the supreme being? If God bends to your will then are you not superior to God? Now if God claims to be the alpha and omega, then by his very nature He will not do that, but rather tell you how to meet up with Him. That He has done. I have followed those directions and I found God as promised.

[/quote]

Say . . . whut?  You think because I just claimed that Darth Vader is evil and obsessed with power, I believe Darth Vader is REAL?   You think because I claim Voldemort is a narcissistic sociopathic megalomaniac, I believe that Voldemort is REAL?  The only difference is that most people don't want to spend their time trying to convince me that these fictional characters are real, and think that they are superior because they believe and I don't.  
   If a deity showed up and proved it's existence, this would only mean that a being with superior abilities to human kind showed up.  Nothing more.  And any deity capable of creating billions of galaxies is capable of proving that it exists.  Particularly IF it, for some weird reason, wants a bunch of sentient apes to worship it all the time.
  You found god?  Do you want a medal?  Do you want applause?  Do you think you're supposed to preach this to the poor ignorant idiots who don't believe he exists?  (What a disrespectful asshole.) No real deity needs a human to speak for it.  You found god?  Bring him to a TV station and have him prove it.  Until you can do that, you're wasting your time and ours.

[Astonished]

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but then why does the world have to be perfect? We were given the world to rule over, and subsequently we gave the world to satan to rule over us so that we may have our 'moral sins.'

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Of course not everyone wants to go. As not all are of God. Satan's seed also walk among us. for sure they do not want to go.

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Narcissist= someone who has an erotic interest in one's self. This use to describe someone who has masturbated. If you want to get technical, you more closely follow the direction of a narcissist than God does "According to the mythology of that book." As God has never shown sexual interest in himself.

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Are you quoting the bible according to brian? Because I remember no bet. maybe you are think about Job.

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and if the world was covered in a mutant hybrid, beyond evil beyond redemption, that had infected everyone? if you are going to use the bible to condemn God you must also use the stated reasons God did what he did as well.

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What I see is a God who smashes the people who would take the xbox from his children.

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If I were slated to be smashed I wouldn't want anything to do with God either. However I'm not, and I do.

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5 years 10,000+ posts. yeah the returns aren't great but they're still there.

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uh,no. this line
says you on some level has accepted the personage of God and see Him apart from the construct of God as you first person singularly identified God and his crimes against your sensibilities. This means You blame a deity. If you fully accepted that their was no deity then the blame would shift to the indivisuals who keep this deity going. Which you try to do in the 2nd half of the sentence, but throughout your work when you mention god you mean God not the construct of evil people. for example:

Here "Sky daddy" is the evil monster who wars and genocide you hate, which is separate from the mundane christian who maybe smart enough not to try and convert you. Now if 'Sky Daddy" was a construct of man then in your story His evil would have to be transferred to the believers. After all if 'sky daddy' is evil and not real then it is those who worship that are evil. But you have seperated the evil and awarded it to God. Which means again on some level you acknowledge God

 But again if you are going to argue those beliefs then why not actually argue what is believed rather that the BS you use to prop each other up?


I found the oppsite to be true... Maybe that is why I am where I am.


If a deity showed up and prooved himself to you then wouldn't make you the supreme being? If God bends to your will then are you not superior to God? Now if God claims to be the alpha and omega, then by his very nature He will not do that, but rather tell you how to meet up with Him. That He has done. I have followed those directions and I found God as promised.

Say . . . whut?  You think because I just claimed that Darth Vader is evil and obsessed with power, I believe Darth Vader is REAL?   You think because I claim Voldemort is a narcissistic sociopathic megalomaniac, I believe that Voldemort is REAL?  The only difference is that most people don't want to spend their time trying to convince me that these fictional characters are real, and think that they are superior because they believe and I don't.  
   If a deity showed up and proved it's existence, this would only mean that a being with superior abilities to human kind showed up.  Nothing more.  And any deity capable of creating billions of galaxies is capable of proving that it exists.  Particularly IF it, for some weird reason, wants a bunch of sentient apes to worship it all the time.
  You found god?  Do you want a medal?  Do you want applause?  Do you think you're supposed to preach this to the poor ignorant idiots who don't believe he exists?  (What a disrespectful asshole.) No real deity needs a human to speak for it.  You found god?  Bring him to a TV station and have him prove it.  Until you can do that, you're wasting your time and ours.
[/quote]

Here's an interesting way to settle this; apparently in brain scans, theists's brain activity is detected in the part of their brain that identifies as 'self' when they talk about their gods. I didn't hear anything about what happens in an atheist's brain when they talk about others' gods but I'd be willing to bet it doesn't trigger the same part of the brain, any more than if we were talking about Darth Vader or Cheech Marin.