Are some theists afraid of atheists?

[Astonished]

Nah, man, shoulda gone with Taxi Driver's monologue on that one.

I saw the youtube video of that. That's pretty cool. Hard to believe that was Robert de Niro.

After those Meet the Parents movies, I wouldn't put anything past him.

[The Industrial Atheist]

I saw the youtube video of that. That's pretty cool. Hard to believe that was Robert de Niro.

After those Meet the Parents movies, I wouldn't put anything past him.

I saw the first one and thought it was pretty funny. That was Meet the Fockers I think.

[Neo-Scholastic]

On personal level I just feel very very sad for atheists. At the cultural level I believe that atheism is a corrosive and undermines the core values of Western civilization such as human dignity, civil rights, aesthetic hierarchies.

Well FWIW I wasn't thinking of you, or any other theist on this site for that matter, in my own reply to this thread... I was thinking of the sort of theist that wouldn't dare set foot on a site like this and engage with atheists, like some I know.

As to your cultural problems with atheism... how do you figure all of those?

Because I believe none of those values can be sustained by paradigms that devolve into nihilism, which is where atheism leads. Without some kind of transcendent reference point none of those values can be rationally justified.

[Astonished]

Well FWIW I wasn't thinking of you, or any other theist on this site for that matter, in my own reply to this thread... I was thinking of the sort of theist that wouldn't dare set foot on a site like this and engage with atheists, like some I know.

As to your cultural problems with atheism... how do you figure all of those?

Because I believe none of those values can be sustained by paradigms that devolve into nihilism, which is where atheism leads. Without some kind of transcendent reference point none of those values can be rationally justified.

Well, you're fucking retarded to believe that. Your worldview is the one where this life should be nothing but a meaningless devolution into nihilism because if you believe in an afterlife, this life is worthless and should be looked at as something to discard as quickly as possible. Those who don't believe in an afterlife cherish this life as precious because of that, not the other way around, dickhead, that's just your stupid-ass tendency to project your own faults onto others yet again. Your imaginary friend as a 'rationally justified transcendent reference point' is similarly asinine, as you can't get two theists to agree exactly on everything about what their imaginary friend decrees, or they subjectively choose to ignore the parts that don't appeal to them. No different than making up your own set of rules and values, which we all do (your dipshit ass included), based on common fucking sense. If you don't want to call that rational, well, you're already wrong about everything else, so knock yourself out and be wrong about that too.

[Ravenshire]

Well FWIW I wasn't thinking of you, or any other theist on this site for that matter, in my own reply to this thread... I was thinking of the sort of theist that wouldn't dare set foot on a site like this and engage with atheists, like some I know.

As to your cultural problems with atheism... how do you figure all of those?

Because I believe none of those values can be sustained by paradigms that devolve into nihilism, which is where atheism leads. Without some kind of transcendent reference point none of those values can be rationally justified.

But, your magical thinking justifies them just fine, right?

[KevinM1]

Wooters conveniently forgets that the bulk of atheists are also humanists.  That it's precisely because we realize that we're limited, vulnerable creatures that are (so far) alone in a vast, impersonal universe that we consider life to be unique and finite.  Something to be celebrated because it's so fragile and temporary.  *Discussions re: abortion are outside the scope of this thread, IMO.

If atheists are nihilists, then I say most of us are the cheerful kind.  We make our own way, which is greatly influenced by the pragmatism of only having one brief period of life, just like everyone else.

Civil rights, human dignity, etc. are actually paramount to many of us.  And to claim otherwise shows a critical misunderstanding on your part.  Atheists are keenly aware of the human condition, and most of us try to improve it.

[Astonished]

Wooters conveniently forgets that the bulk of atheists are also humanists.  That it's precisely because we realize that we're limited, vulnerable creatures that are (so far) alone in a vast, impersonal universe that we consider life to be unique and finite.  Something to be celebrated because it's so fragile and temporary.  *Discussions re: abortion are outside the scope of this thread, IMO.

If atheists are nihilists, then I say most of us are the cheerful kind.  We make our own way, which is greatly influenced by the pragmatism of only having one brief period of life, just like everyone else.

Civil rights, human dignity, etc. are actually paramount to many of us.  And to claim otherwise shows a critical misunderstanding on your part.  Atheists are keenly aware of the human condition, and most of us try to improve it.

It's amazing that pro-life folk can have that same attitude and yet not have a damn thing to say when some baby born with no brain or some other condition where actual 'experience' is simply out of the question because of it. Their god must have a funny fucking way of expressing how precious life is and the free will to explore it.

[emjay]

Well FWIW I wasn't thinking of you, or any other theist on this site for that matter, in my own reply to this thread... I was thinking of the sort of theist that wouldn't dare set foot on a site like this and engage with atheists, like some I know.

As to your cultural problems with atheism... how do you figure all of those?

Because I believe none of those values can be sustained by paradigms that devolve into nihilism, which is where atheism leads. Without some kind of transcendent reference point none of those values can be rationally justified.

By nihilism, you mean the view that life is meaningless? I guess I am a bit of a nihilist... evolution has no goal... we're here because we can be, nothing more. But that doesn't change the fact that we are here and everyone, theist and atheist alike, have their own crosses to bear, challenges to overcome, moral decisions to make... everyone has a conscience... everyone has empathy for others. Are you saying it's all rendered moot... being human regardless of how we came to be human... if our 'worth'/'purpose' cannot be rationally justified in dry philosophy... ie if we come to a nihilistic conclusion?

By corroding human dignity do you mean in this nihilistic sense (as in the view that I have... that we're ultimately just biochemical machines, our reactions governed by the clockwork universe) or do you mean in a more Biblical sense where humans are placed at the centre of the universe, better than, and with dominion over, all other forms of life?

As for civil rights, what do you mean by civil rights? Everyone fights for civil rights, where they see injustice... that's not the preserve of religion. And where atheism is concerned, that fight is based on principles of fairness to all, equality, and empathy for others, unfettered by the prejudices and conformity of religion.

Finally, as for 'aesthetic hierarchies', I have no idea what that means

[Succubus]

Well good luck to you, I'm still struggling with 'transcendent reference point'.

[Astonished]

Well good luck to you, I'm still struggling with 'transcendent reference point'.

I already refuted that. He hasn't answered; probably because he knows he can't.