This Has to Stop

[Minimalist]

Obviously, those are not True Amish!  ®

[The Grand Nudger]

They don't feel that way.  The amish have -always- contracted outsiders to do what they would not but had to be done.  It's no different than orthodox jews paying someone to turn the lights on and off for them.  

Those jews are super jewy, and the amish who do the same are still super amish.

[Minimalist]

duplicate

[Catholic_Lady]

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. 

Not true. I live within twenty minutes of the nearest Amish family and I can tell you for a fact that they absolutely accept rides from people who own cars. They eat out in restaurants and yes - some do allow their picture to be taken. While their farms might not use modern technology such as modern farm equipment and electricity, they do absoultely take advantage of modern conveniences while they are out in public. 

Saw them numerous times up at Hershey hospital when I took my oldest there for appointments to see her specialists. She stayed in the Children's hospital for 10 days after her last surgery. There were dozens of them in the family waiting room after a child fell out of a barn window. They used the microwaves and the refridgerators there as well as some of the kids played video games available for use. They do not turn away medical attention. They sell their goods and their wares to modernized people. How else do you think they make money necessary to pay their property taxes and the like? Did you honestly think that they were so far removed from society that they were somehow hidden, exempt from actually dealing with the public? When an Amish kid turns 18, they are given the opportunity to spend time in the real world, exposed to everything thing we have access to today, for a period of one year. They either come back to their community at age 19 or they opt out. If they opt out, they are never allowed to return to their community. Ever. But to say that they aren't ever exposed to modern conveniences is just a flat out lie.

Also - The Amish are frequently in the news papers as well and they all aren't "innocent" God-fearing people either. Just a few years back, a few Lancaster county Amish boys got busted for selling marajuana out of their buggy. Completely cut off and isolated, my ass. Do some research on a subject before you speak about it.

Yeah I was gonna say the same. They have rumspringa specifically so that they can decide for themselves.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can't imagine why anyone would put themselves through such a convoluted web of shit taboos if they -weren't- truly amish. Hell, they'd save some coin if they did their own mass spec, and sprayed their own shit. We english don't exactly work for free or the glory of god, you know.

[LadyForCamus]

Sooooo taking your kid to church and teaching them about belief in Jesus and God is wishing death upon them? Wow, sounds like my parents really hated me.

They certainly didn't respect you enough to dissuade you from a fairy based world view or provide you with anything remotely resembling a factual assessment of the catholic institution or it's positions.  

Not really a dig.  I lie to my own kids all the time, too.  It's superfun, and takes alot less time than providing a legitimate answer to their every question.

Eh, growing up with a Catholic mom who forced me to go to church and taught me all the same stuff, I don't think lack of respect has much to do with it.  She just really believed it was true.  In her mind it was her responsibility as a parent to teach me about the resurrection, as much as it was to teach me about holding hands when crossing the street, and not talking to strangers.  I don't fault her at all.

[The Grand Nudger]

I agree that parents who indoctrinate their children aren't intentionally shitting on them...that's not what they're trying to do.  It is, however, what they've done. Most of the time I;m willing to bet that they lie to their children for the same reason I lie to my own. For the same reason that the lie of every religion was concocted. To get them off my nuts when they ask questions.

They've shown that their respect and deference lies with the church, not their children. At least I have a good (and honest) excuse for my own shenanigans, it's funny. I;ve convinced my children..for example, that the north pole (and ipso facto santas workshop) is between kentucky and ohio. The christers have convinced their children to accept a human sacrifice for their own innumerable misdeeds. That their actions, engaged in lovingly and with full belief in jesusism..then go on to produce broken and duplicitous people (and often unconscientiously so) is hardly surprising. I doubt that my daughter, on the other hand...will ever be here on AF plumping for Santa In The Hills and denigrating themselves and their fellow man the whole way in doing so.

All while expressing shock, shock I say!...at the notion that their mommy and daddy may not have given them the kind of upbringing they deserved, but, rather.. did what the shaman told them to.

People genuinely believing that they were right is the engine behind all the worst examples, and does nothing to rescue our mommys and daddys..or ourselves, when we fuck up. At some point, even I have to come clean with my kids....because if I don't..they'll either consider me a liar..or worse yet...continue to believe that shit into adulthood - as the christers commonly do.

Consider how you would assess the scenario in the case of my lie, perpetuated into adulthood, and cultivated with the same level of adherence indicative of religious faith. You would think that something was wrong with my children, and that this something was most likely me. Christers, and specifically our christer mothers, though, get a pass.

Mine believed in pagan gods and magical healing. If I decided to cast my lot in with cantrips over cancer.....and you could isolate my insistence on miracle cures to my mothers religious indoctrination...would you offer the same warm defense?

Christerism seeks to exempt itself from criticism by the hooks of our loved ones and what silly christer shit they do. How "normal" it all is. How "genuine". How they're just trying to love us. I grant no such exemption. It;s not normal, it;s not genuine, and it's not love. Those people may be normal, and genuine, and love you/us....but that's not what they were up to when they told you about magic book/building/man.

[Minimalist]

I agree that parents who indoctrinate their children aren't intentionally shitting on them...that's not what they're trying to do.  It is, however, what they've done.

In much the same way as parents who refuse to vaccinate their children against measles are not trying to give them measles but avoid them getting autism.  They are exposing their kid to measles and it may or may not get autism anyway because one has nothing to do with the other.

[The Grand Nudger]

If those people respected their children in any non-novel way accommodating for their own idiocy (be it anti-vax or christer idiocy) then they'd vaccinate their fucking children.....because vaccination isn't about their silly beliefs.  Similarly, it's not impossible for a believing parent to refuse indoctrination for the same reason.  There's one in this house, the ubiquitous christian mother.  

There is a component of mindless self aggrandizement in religious indoctrination that doesn't even escape the fucking religious.  The christian mother of this household sure as shit doesn't think that -my- mother, filling her children's heads with heretical stories, is acceptable. Or for their own good. Regardless of how genuinely my mother believes them or how decent she is or how much she loves her grandchildren.

[Harry Nevis]

Or what about the Amish? Beliefs they teach aside, they intentionally strip away access to modernism in virtually every way. Technology, education, everything that makes life worth living nowadays, completely cut off and isolated. 

Not true. I live within twenty minutes of the nearest Amish family and I can tell you for a fact that they absolutely accept rides from people who own cars. They eat out in restaurants and yes - some do allow their picture to be taken. While their farms might not use modern technology such as modern farm equipment and electricity, they do absoultely take advantage of modern conveniences while they are out in public. 

Saw them numerous times up at Hershey hospital when I took my oldest there for appointments to see her specialists. She stayed in the Children's hospital for 10 days after her last surgery. There were dozens of them in the family waiting room after a child fell out of a barn window. They used the microwaves and the refridgerators there as well as some of the kids played video games available for use. They do not turn away medical attention. They sell their goods and their wares to modernized people. How else do you think they make money necessary to pay their property taxes and the like? Did you honestly think that they were so far removed from society that they were somehow hidden, exempt from actually dealing with the public? When an Amish kid turns 18, they are given the opportunity to spend time in the real world, exposed to everything thing we have access to today, for a period of one year. They either come back to their community at age 19 or they opt out. If they opt out, they are never allowed to return to their community. Ever. But to say that they aren't ever exposed to modern conveniences is just a flat out lie.

Also - The Amish are frequently in the news papers as well and they all aren't "innocent" God-fearing people either. Just a few years back, a few Lancaster county Amish boys got busted for selling marajuana out of their buggy. Completely cut off and isolated, my ass. Do some research on a subject before you speak about it.

I used to work in a children's hospital, and we had lots of Amish families having their kids treated.  I would tell my more gullible friends that they had exercycles next to the beds so they could power the equipment without electricity, and they changed all the indicator lights on the IV pumps from red and green to gray and white.