List of reasons to believe God exists?

[henryp]

Great, so let's agree God is the ground for morality (as opposed to relying on concepts such as pain and happiness and such), then what? What does this say about what the moral system is like?

Aside Neo first assertion being bullshit (Non theism is grounded ) . Make believing in god does nothing. It's not any kind of actual grounding it's just mythology .

---

Apparently not distinct or complete enough to be able to survive outside someone else's body.

Which is the central issue . A woman is under no obligation to host an intruder .Simply being distinct from the parent means nothing .

You guys wouldn't have to use your dipshit rationalizations if you just owned reality.  You think women should be able to murder babies.  That's what's really going on.  If you can't accept that as reality, then you should be anti-abortion.  But you don't have to be.  You can be pro women murdering babies, and there's nothing wrong with that.  You're atheists.  This is a perk.  We don't have to make our views fit around the silly notion that life is inherently valuable.  

I had this discussion with someone about 6 months before Louis CK's special came out, but Louis CK summed it up much better.

https://youtu.be/iWFGIf1jIdY

[The Grand Nudger]

The anger is understandable.  Deep sixing our horrid abortion laws and pursuing a different path -actually- led to all of the things they sold as a bill of goods for the benefits keeping abortion illegal.  Not only was their brand stolen, the usurpers did it better...and the same is true of moral realism in the 21st century.

Except for that whole being right in the sight of the lord business, which is the important part....unfortunately this is not relevant to a secular countries laws nor would a secular countries laws make them somehow morally or religiously complicit to whatever it is they think fairies object to.

True enough . I just hope they fail at passing anti abortion laws .Because i imagine it will take a mountain of dead woman from back alley abortions to get them to admit they were wrong .

Ultimately, that's what it took the last time, and it's not as if the mountain would fail to materialize if we turned back the clock.  OTOH, decades of raising sexual awareness (yet another no-no habitually opposed in the sight of the lord) has reduced some of the problem that abortion serves as a solution for.  A terrible and ironic possibility presents itself;  

The gains made by secular people and laws employing the tiniest shred of human decency may have..in the event of a return to theocracy, set up the foundations of society such that said theocracy doesn't implode as it did before.

Thanks Obama! 

@Wallym.
Na, that's your mistake following and being fed by theirs. The framing of the issue as "pro-abortion" was intentionally designed to accomplish exactly what it's accomplished in you. People, in expressing their acceptance of the legality and regulation of abortions are not..in any way, expressing a moral opinion on murdering babies...and most would prefer that no one ever needed or felt compelled to seek an abortion in the first place.

Like I said before..it's possible to have this conversation..but not with people for whom the shared misapprehension is the basis of their understanding of the issue's legality or any moral component. The ball, for yall..has gone beyond left field and is now entering a stable orbit. Nor, for that matter, does being an athiest manifest "perks" such as being for murdering babies. As I already noted, you'll find an explicit instruction to abortion in magic book..but not in any non-existent atheist dogma. Compounding mistakes, is the notion that the intrinsic value of life is somehow related to god belief...it isn't...and couldn't be, because god-value is not intrinsic. It's external and imposed.

See how easy it is to comment, objectively, on all of these issues?

[Amarok]

Aside Neo first assertion being bullshit (Non theism is grounded ) . Make believing in god does nothing. It's not any kind of actual grounding it's just mythology .

---

Which is the central issue . A woman is under no obligation to host an intruder .Simply being distinct from the parent means nothing .

You guys wouldn't have to use your dipshit rationalizations if you just owned reality.  You think women should be able to murder babies.  That's what's really going on.  If you can't accept that as reality, then you should be anti-abortion.  But you don't have to be.  You can be pro women murdering babies, and there's nothing wrong with that.  You're atheists.  This is a perk.  We don't have to make our views fit around the silly notion that life is inherently valuable.  

I had this discussion with someone about 6 months before Louis CK's special came out, and he summed it up perfectly.

https://youtu.be/iWFGIf1jIdY

This assumes that i'm using rationalizations . Didn't realize you were psychic wally . And just because you have given up on having any morality does not mean i have to follow you into the abyss.

[GrandizerII]

Yeah, but not by remaining inside their mother's body. That would be even more hell for the mother.

SteveII's point stands. You continue to respond with subjective concerns. You cannot give an objective reason why the location of the human being is relevant, or an objective reason why who has responsibility for the care of the dependent human being matters, or why the subjective experience of the mother warrants giving her life and death authority over another human being.

The subjective experience of the mother would be a very good objective reason why she should have a say regarding who gets to be inside her own body.

[Amarok]

True enough . I just hope they fail at passing anti abortion laws .Because i imagine it will take a mountain of dead woman from back alley abortions to get them to admit they were wrong .

Ultimately, that's what it took the last time, and it's not as if the mountain would fail to materialize if we turned back the clock.  OTOH, decades of raising sexual awareness (yet another no-no habitually opposed in the sight of the lord) has reduced some of the problem that abortion serves as a solution for.  A terrible and ironic possibility presents itself;  

The gains made by secular people and laws employing the tiniest shred of human decency may..in the event of a return to theocracy, have set up the foundations of society such that said theocracy doesn't implode as it did before.

Thanks Obama! 

Theocracy is it's own worst enemy .

[GrandizerII]

You guys wouldn't have to use your dipshit rationalizations if you just owned reality.  You think women should be able to murder babies.  That's what's really going on.  If you can't accept that as reality, then you should be anti-abortion.  But you don't have to be.  You can be pro women murdering babies, and there's nothing wrong with that.  You're atheists.  This is a perk.  We don't have to make our views fit around the silly notion that life is inherently valuable.  

I had this discussion with someone about 6 months before Louis CK's special came out, and he summed it up perfectly.

https://youtu.be/iWFGIf1jIdY

This assumes that i'm using rationalizations . Didn't realize you were psychic wally . And just because you have given up on having any morality does not mean i have to follow you into the abyss.

Perhaps we really should go back to treating women as second-class citizens. Back to the Dark Ages we go.

[Amarok]

And no steves point fails . The woman is under no obligation to host a intruder . And has every right to ex-spell it . If those are not objective i don't know what is . And what  Grand says works too.

[Catholic_Lady]

Wanted to apologize real quick for calling y'all idiots. Abortion is a very personal issue for me and my family for several reasons. I have little patience with this issue and so can't talk about it civilly when there are downright bad arguments being made in favor of it.

CL, out.

[Amarok]

This assumes that i'm using rationalizations . Didn't realize you were psychic wally . And just because you have given up on having any morality does not mean i have to follow you into the abyss.

Perhaps we really should go back to treating women as second-class citizens. Back to the Dark Ages we go.

Because that is the height of the human dignity apparently.

[Neo-Scholastic]

You guys wouldn't have to use your dipshit rationalizations if you just owned reality.  You think women should be able to murder babies.  That's what's really going on.  If you can't accept that as reality, then you should be anti-abortion.  But you don't have to be.  You can be pro women murdering babies, and there's nothing wrong with that.  You're atheists.  This is a perk.  We don't have to make our views fit around the silly notion that life is inherently valuable.  

I wish other atheists like Tiz were as intellectually honest as you and your willingness to embrace "the abyss". We have at least that much in common. May I offer you a Martini? I make a damn good one with Mt. Terrier juniper-forward gin and smooth Dolin vermouth.