Record few Americans believe in Biblical inerrancy.

[Mister Agenda]

Well, help me "see the light" GC?  The three categories add to 100% for each year; what does the poll, from your perspective, mean?

 The first and third are the same thing, if you add them together you have 71%. There are in actuality only two categories .

GC

The first is: Actual word of God to be taken literally. 24%
The related one is: Inspired by God, not all to be taken literally. 47%

One of the main points of the survey is to distinguish between literalist fundamentalists and mainstream Christians, but you can't tell the difference. And in 1984, both of them combined were 85%.

[Drich]

BTW, the Bible doesn't need to be inerrant or even a jot or tittle true at all.

It's all about what God wants of His followers in regards to their beliefs. It's THE PLAN, silly!

Simple as that.  

Hell if I know why inerrancy is even an issue.  


But since it is, well, then the believers and the apologists are stuck defending all the little jewels like these:


PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.

oh, glob..
This one is easy sport. just look up the proverbs passage and it will unwind itself. (unless you do not know the difference between a psalm, proverb and a command. Even so let look closer at who is speaking in proverbs 30:

Wise Sayings of Agur Son of Jakeh
30 These are the wise sayings of Agur son of Jakeh from Massa. He says, “God, I am tired, so tired. How can I keep going?”[a]
2 I am stupid. I am not as smart as other people are. 3 I have not learned to be wise. I know nothing about the Holy One.[b] 4 Who has ever gone up to heaven and come back down? Who gathered the winds in his hand? Who can gather up all the water in his lap? Who set the limits for the world? What is his name, and what is his son’s name? Do you know?
5 You can trust this: Every word that God speaks is true. God is a safe place for those who go to him. 6 So don’t try to change what God says. If you do, he will punish you and prove that you are a liar.

Now who is saying every word of God to be true? is it God? or it is the thoughts of the "wiseman Agur?"

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.

At the point God had finished creation he was pleased. After people pooped all over what he had created he wasno longer pleased.. how is this a hard concept for you to understand?

You buy a brand new house you decorate to perfection you have family over for a big party, they poop all over what you own, you are not longer pleased.

(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience as well as with the fact that God allegedly does not change his mind: NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17.)

  Don't be stupid. when you buy you house and have your big party, you know who your famil and friends are, you know they will not treat you new house like you would, so does that mean you don't have them over? Hell most of us buy homes that entertain well. why? so you can have those big parties, those parties that wreck your home. Do you really think God to be so different?

MT 5:16 Good works should be seen.
MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret.

 
READ the passage in full
chapter 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its taste, it cannot be made salty again. Salt is useless if it loses its salty taste. It will be thrown out where people will just walk on it.

14 “You are the light that shines for the world to see. You are like a city built on a hill that cannot be hidden. 15 People don’t hide a lamp under a bowl. They put it on a lampstand. Then the light shines for everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, you should be a light for other people. Live so that they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven.

6 “Be careful! When you do something good, don’t do it in front of others so that they will see you. If you do that, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

chapter 6:2 “When you give to those who are poor, don’t announce that you are giving. Don’t be like the hypocrites. When they are in the synagogues and on the streets, they blow trumpets before they give so that people will see them. They want everyone to praise them. The truth is, that’s all the reward they will get. 3 So when you give to the poor, don’t let anyone know what you are doing.[a] 4 Your giving should be done in private. Your Father can see what is done in private, and he will reward you.

5 is talking about works. feeding the poor, performing miricals, teaching, helping or loving your brother.

6 is specifically talking about giving money. not good works but handing out cash and making a big deal about it like the pharaisees did. how is this concept lost? how can this and any of these other be considered contradictions??? that's right you douche bags don't actually read the bible you siply go onto a web site and cut and paste someone else's dishonest work.

MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law.
EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law.

 
The law is still in effect for those who are not under atonement.
Mening for those who do not wear the forgivness of Christ will be judge by the law. the passages in Ep And heb are speaking to those who are not under the law any more.

MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith.
JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works.

 
Why can't both be true?
We are justified by faith but the type of faith we must have automatically yields works? it not enough to say I have faith in a chair I must sit in it. the type of faith needed is not a pronuncement type of faith but a sit in it type of faith.

MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering.
LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards.

Not counting days from the same event. Mat Jesus asks peter who am I He response the son of God and Jesus commends him because only God could tell him that. In Luke Peter tells Jesus he should not have to suffer and die, and jesus calls peter satan. Two different day probable 2 or so days apart.

MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine.
LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread.

So? how is this a contradiction when there is no command as to which is to come first? chapter 14 has nothing to do with nothing.

mat 27 and john 18 jesus remains silent...
in John 18 jesus remain silent to the charges brought on by the Jews/ he did not answer the false accusations the jewish leadership made against Him.. however this does not mean he did not answer pilates question in mat 27. this is explained in mark 15

MK 15:25 It was the third hour when Jesus was crucified.

the time he was physically nailed

JN 19:14-15 It was after the sixth hour since Jesus was still before Pilate and had not yet been sentenced at that time.

the time he was found guilty at pilate's palace and sent off to be crucified.

LK 23:43 Jesus promises one of those crucified with him that they will be together, that very day, in Paradise.
JN 20:17, AC 1:3 Jesus was not raised until the third day and did not ascend until at least forty days later.

In luke the theif says to the other you should fear God.
Jesus said today you shall be with ἐμοῦ emou heaven. The word is translated oftimes to "me" the word shows ownership and means mine. a more correct translation "today you will be in my heven"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/luk/...onc_996043

JN 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true.
JN 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true.

  Wow, how desperatly dishonest is this POS.
John5
31 “If I tell people about myself, they cannot be sure that what I say is true. 32 But there is someone else who tells people about me, and I know that what he says about me is true.
33 “You sent men to John, and he told you what is true. 34 I don’t need anyone to tell people about me, but I remind you of what John said so that you can be saved. 35 John was like a lamp that burned and gave light, and you were happy to enjoy his light for a while.
36 “But I have a proof about myself that is greater than anything John said. The things I do are my proof. These are what my Father gave me to do. They show that the Father sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has given proof about me himself. But you have never heard his voice. You have never seen what he looks like. 38 The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent. 39 You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me! 40 But you refuse to come to me to have that life.

john8
14 Jesus answered, “Yes, I am saying these things about myself. But people can believe what I say, because I know where I came from. And I know where I am going. But you don’t know where I came from or where I am going. 15 You judge me the way people judge other people. I don’t judge anyone. 16 But if I judge, my judging is true, because when I judge I am not alone. The Father who sent me is with me. 17 Your own law says that when two witnesses say the same thing, you must accept what they say. 18 I am one of the witnesses who speaks about myself. And the Father who sent me is my other witness.”
19 The people asked, “Where is your father?”
Jesus answered, “You don’t know me or my Father. But if you knew me, you would know my Father too.” 20 Jesus said these things while he was teaching in the Temple area, near the room where the Temple offerings were kept. But no one arrested him, because the right time for him had not yet come.

Jesus is talking about other's perception based on what they hear verses what they see and experience.

JN 17:12 Jesus has lost none of his disciples other than Judas.
JN 18:9 Jesus has lost none, period.

this is only true if you read only 1/2 of 17:12
He goes on to say in Judas was never his and was meant to be lost as per prior scripture foretold

1CO 8:4 There is only one God.
2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods).

nope. one God many lords and powers. one president, many governors and or mayors.

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.
GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.

pretty self explainatory for the honest man:
Brothers and sisters, someone in your group might do something wrong. You who are following the Spirit should go to the one who is sinning. Help make that person right again, and do it in a gentle way. But be careful, because you might be tempted to sin too. 2 Help each other with your troubles. When you do this, you are obeying the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to do this, you are only fooling yourself. 4 Don’t compare yourself with others. Just look at your own work to see if you have done anything to be proud of. 5 You must each accept the responsibilities that are yours.

1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

indeed.. can't recolcile this? then you do not understand the basics of the gopsel.

And to reiterate, I don't think  a  True Believer need concern themselves about any of that, but it seems many think they do.

Have at it.

what else you got? Mind you if you simply link me to the skeptics annotated bible, I will in turn link you to the skeptics annotated bible answered!

[Jehanne]

I already posted this, but I would like to read your explanation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius

[John V]

I already posted this, but I would like to read your explanation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius

OK. What are the original sources for the view in the link?

[Jehanne]

I already posted this, but I would like to read your explanation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census_of_Quirinius

OK. What are the original sources for the view in the link?

Here's an excellent source of Christian scholars who are not fundamentalists:

http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/2

[John V]

Not scholars. The original historical sources that the scholars base their view on.

To my knowledge it's Josephus, but I don't want to assume.

[Jehanne]

I am not a Roman classical scholar. Do you know the 1st century languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, etc.) fluently?

[John V]

No. I'm just asking if there's more to that view than what Josephus said.

[Jehanne]

I think that it has been definitively settled by scholars that the author of Luke's Gospel erred.

[vulcanlogician]

@OP: The survey question is very poorly worded. I'm an inerrantist, but as worded, I would choose the inspired option. "To be taken literally" is bad wording. The Bible contains poetry, songs, dreams, visions, parables, etc. These by their nature aren't meant to be taken literally.

The Mark/John contradiction (if it is a contradiction) seems to be a matter of vague wording. If I was more prepared, I might argue it further, but for all I know, you could be right. FWIW people on the internet disagree with your assessment. Since there are two definitions of day, that just confuses things more. In the end, it's rather arbitrary. Anyway, I have developed an argument that doesn't rely on pointing out contradictions in the text.

Let's go back to the drawing board. I understand what you've said in the quote above. But, since you are a self-proclaimed inerrantist, you must hold that the bible does not contain any errors on factual matters. When it is intentionally using metaphor (ie. If thy right eye offend thee) it is not meant to be taken literally. But when it says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear," this is as good as a commandment from God, correct? (If you disagree, please explain.) Even if the stuff in Paul's epistles aren't commandments per se, then at the very least, his proclaiments about the nature of God (ie "God is love") must be true. If neither imperatives or factual claims are to be taken as correct, "inerrancy" loses all meaning. So, as an inerrantist, you must accept that at least one of these is true (if not both). I'm going to assume you think both imperatives and factual claims are inerrant-- correct me if I'm wrong. (And by imperatives being "inerrant" I mean that they correctly express the will of God.)

Anyhoo, my argument deals with where you get this idea of inerrancy in the first place. Take Paul, for example. Why is it assumed that when he wrote letters to various congregations that he didn't make one single mistake? Paul certainly never referred to his own letters as inerrant. In Timothy, "scripture" is likely meant to refer to the Jewish law alone, not books in the NT yet to be written. 

I've heard that it is Paul's status as an apostle which makes his writings inerrant. If this is true, where do you get the notion that apostles are inerrant? Look at Peter. In Matthew 16:22, after Jesus reveals that he is going to be the sacrificial lamb, Peter objects. He says that he is not going to let Jesus die. Jesus' reply?

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

The point I'm trying to make here is that Peter, an apostle, made a mistake in interpreting the will of God. He erred. So why, when he sat down to write Peter 1 & 2, is he assumed to make absolutely correct determinations of God's will? There is no way of separating what is "genuinely inspired by God" (assuming such inspiration is a real phenomenon) from the apostles' opinions and personal perspectives. With this in mind, one can easily conclude that Paul might have made mistakes too.

To summarize the question: Where do you get the notion that apostolic writing is without error when it is clearly shown in the Bible that apostles were capable of error in in discerning God's will?