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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 3, 2018 at 8:47 pm
(February 3, 2018 at 4:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote: No one "disagrees with their god". Ask around. They simply find ways to make their god agree with them.
Quote:Of course, if none of them make sense, (those gods and religions), then it makes most sense to accept none of them.
Any "sense" is granted, not found...and in that regard every religion -can- make sense. It's what we call internal logic. Things that are patently illogical can still be internally logical.
No one finds that christianity (or any other religion) agrees with them, or that it makes sense on it's own. People whittle a christianity that does, and does...that's why you'll never find a jot and tittle believer, even among the group that swears they believe in every jot and tittle.
So we agree - people make their own decisions about what is right and wrong. If so, we're done here.
There are no atheists in terrorist training camps.
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 4, 2018 at 2:23 am
Well I would assume that the majority of people would consider the fact that they would not enjoy being raped. Therefore wouldn’t rape anybody. The ones that don’t are called sociopaths and oddly, they would be way more identifiable and easy to prosecute if it were made “legal”. The quotations are of course because someone somewhere will always be pissed about rape, and if possible strike back with vengeance. So while legal, still would not be without ramifications. If anybody thinks laws determine moral and societal norms fully they are very naive.
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 4, 2018 at 2:43 am
(February 3, 2018 at 8:47 pm)Magilla Wrote: So we agree - people make their own decisions about what is right and wrong. If so, we're done here.
Who the hell else would be making them, eh? 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 4, 2018 at 6:14 am
(February 4, 2018 at 2:23 am)Jeezypete Wrote: Well I would assume that the majority of people would consider the fact that they would not enjoy being raped. Therefore wouldn’t rape anybody. The ones that don’t are called sociopaths and oddly, they would be way more identifiable and easy to prosecute if it were made “legal”. The quotations are of course because someone somewhere will always be pissed about rape, and if possible strike back with vengeance. So while legal, still would not be without ramifications. If anybody thinks laws determine moral and societal norms fully they are very naive.
What the fuck are you talking about?
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 7:19 am
(January 26, 2018 at 11:25 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I found this in A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Krauss.
To religious people: If god declared that rape and murder were morally acceptable, would that make them so?
Most of you would probably say that god would not say such a thing. But why not?
Because he's given us a conscience that tells most of us that those things are wrong.
If god thought those things were morally acceptable, most of us would find them morally acceptable too.
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 9:52 am
(February 8, 2018 at 7:19 am)alpha male Wrote: (January 26, 2018 at 11:25 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I found this in A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence Krauss.
To religious people: If god declared that rape and murder were morally acceptable, would that make them so?
Most of you would probably say that god would not say such a thing. But why not?
Because he's given us a conscience that tells most of us that those things are wrong.
If god thought those things were morally acceptable, most of us would find them morally acceptable too.
We have a conscience, but why do we need a God for that again?
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 9:54 am
(February 8, 2018 at 9:52 am)Grandizer Wrote: We have a conscience, but why do we need a God for that again?
Considering that OP takes god as a given for this question...what difference does it make? I'll answer: none.
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 9:56 am
(This post was last modified: February 8, 2018 at 9:59 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(January 27, 2018 at 11:05 am)polymath257 Wrote: The problem I have in saying that whatever God wants is automatically moral is the number of people who think God is talking to them and think He is telling them to kill their kids.
if God is the standard, and if you really believe God is talking to you, then you *have* to do what the voice in your head says.
And what is that number?
To atheists: if there was something good in and of itself would you choose to recognize it as such?
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 10:31 am
(This post was last modified: February 8, 2018 at 10:44 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The recognition of good isn't something I have a choice in anymore than I can choose to recognize that a person is blonde. It seems like a strange question, and even stranger when directed specifically at atheists as though atheism were relevant to the subject?
Do you find that you have any choice in this matter? Do you choose what is good, or do you recognize what is good? Could you choose not to recognize what good you do recognize -as- good?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: God does not determine right and wrong
February 8, 2018 at 10:35 am
(February 8, 2018 at 9:56 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (January 27, 2018 at 11:05 am)polymath257 Wrote: The problem I have in saying that whatever God wants is automatically moral is the number of people who think God is talking to them and think He is telling them to kill their kids.
if God is the standard, and if you really believe God is talking to you, then you *have* to do what the voice in your head says.
And what is that number?
To atheists: if there was something good in and of itself would you choose to recognize it as such?
I would be logically obliged to recognize it as such.
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