Man Named 'Tiffany' Is Dominating Women's Pro Volleyball in Brazil

[Catholic_Lady]

As me and a few others have already explained in detail, the "problem" is that being a transwomen means you are biologically male, and therefore have a male advantage over cis women, who are biologically female. Sports are divided up by sex, not gender. In a women's competition, yes, only people who are biological female and therefore don't have a male advantage should be "allowed" to compete and win.

You just admitted above that you don't care if transwomen have a male advtange over the other women and beat them. You specifically said "even of they are stronger and will win, why not just let them?" You think they should be allowed to compete against cis women who dont have a male advantage and beat them anyway. You just admitted it.

You are not an athlete and you're not a woman. Neither are Grandizer and Tiz. So I can "semi" see why it doesnt matter to you that someone with a male advantage would compete in the women's division, with women who don't have a male advantage, and crush their records and get first place due to their male advantage that all the other women don't have. I can see why this may seem trivial to someone who is a man and has never competed in sports ("What's wrong ladies, just let that transwoman over there with a male advantage beat you all, no biggie! You'll just continue to be the physically weaker sex!"). ...Not understanding competitiveness and the hard work a person puts into their sport, you're just going to default to the trans side of everything because it's the PC thing to do.

This is exactly right; I totally agree with CL in this thread. It takes a hell of a lot of work to get to being a competitive athlete. I've put thousands of hours into track, and I know that all of my competitors put that much time into training as well, and that's the whole fun of the competition. The thought that a massive group of people - all biological men - could enter with a fixed advantage makes it so my work is completely wasted. Why bother training if I'll never have a shot at winning? There's absolutely no need to destroy women's sport like that just to be politically correct.

This kind of anti-competition argument is one of those things that really bothers me about the left.

Amen sister!

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Well, I did find that women are actually better than men at open water endurance swimming. Turns out you fuckers can't catch us. Take that.

Built in flotation devices.

Fat floats lol. So this actually makes sense.

[Edwardo Piet]

As far as fairness goes, treating a transition from one gender to another as cheating seems a bit silly to me. As if anyone would go to such lengths.

It seems much fairer to me to say they are allowed to compete under their new gender than to say they can't compete at all. It would be humiliating to make them compete against a gender they no longer have.

We agree completely.

[Amarok]

As far as fairness goes, treating a transition from one gender to another as cheating seems a bit silly to me. As if anyone would go to such lengths.

It seems much fairer to me to say they are allowed to compete under their new gender than to say they can't compete at all. It would be humiliating to make them compete against a gender they no longer have.

We agree completely.

Indeed it's demeaning .It's essentially telling them their not who they are.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, it only ruffles feathers when some trans wins something.  Losers are always looking for a reason beyond the fact that they fucking sucked, and the howler monkey brigade is all too willing to latch onto the tit and suck the ignorance straight from the source on this one.  

M-f should compete with females, f-m with males...if we're deadset on segregating sporting events by gender. Nothing about transitioning can be described as a performance enhancing process, lol. That shit is hell on the body. Personally, if I'd spent a lifetime pursuing sports and peak fitness.....I don't know that I could ruin it by transitioning...but, ofc, I'm not suffering from any sort of dysphoria, so.

[shadow]

As far as fairness goes, treating a transition from one gender to another as cheating seems a bit silly to me. As if anyone would go to such lengths.

It seems much fairer to me to say they are allowed to compete under their new gender than to say they can't compete at all. It would be humiliating to make them compete against a gender they no longer have.

It's still not fair at all... makes no difference if it's "humiliating". If you don't meet the requirements to compete in a tournament, you shouldn't compete in it.  And this is about BIOLOGICAL SEX, not GENDER. Unless you can completely change everything about your body to become a biological woman, which I contend is impossible, you have an unfair advantage in competition that ruins the sport for everyone else.

It doesn't mean trans women can't play sports, but they shouldn't be trying to win competitions against biological women. Especially when tournaments start having prizes attached! There I absolutely could see that some scumbag would cheat.

"As if anyone would go so such lengths... " I know, right? People taking a body-altering amount of hormones to win a competition! That would never happen... it totally isn't extremely against the rules of competitive sports for a reason.

Think again.

[The Grand Nudger]

The trouble, is that the above is not..at all, what any of the sparse trans data we have suggests.  Those "advantages to being male"..already shaky themselves...are the very things effected by transitioning.  Muscle mass is lost, bone density decreases, stamina goes into the shitter. On top of that, M-f trans have -lower- levels of what we understand to be performance enhancing hormones than their cisgendered peers.

You're telling us, in effect, that you consider taking performance -decreasing- substances as a way to cheat. How does that make any kind of sense?

[CapnAwesome]

In my high school/college cross country/track teams, we had girls who were faster than the slowest boys. Males are NOT always better than females in sports.

No kidding, good thing nobody claimed that, ever.

[The Grand Nudger]

It is the underlying assumption of people who oppose trans competing in their chosen genders on the basis of their birth sex.  No one has to -say- it.  The assumption is that somehow, being a man, even if you've transitioned, is broadly advantageous.  Shadow, there, just contended that every unspecified thing about the male body would have to be transformed or else the trans would have an unfair advantage. That could only be true if males were somehow inherently better than females at sports on the basis of their sex alone.

The premise is silent (like so many of these sorts of premises are), but that doesn't mean that it's not there.

[CapnAwesome]

The trouble, is that the above is not..at all, what any of the sparse trans data we have suggests.  Those "advantages to being male"..already shaky themselves...are the very things effected by transitioning.  Muscle mass is lost, bone density decreases, stamina goes into the shitter. On top of that, M-f trans have -lower- levels of what we understand to be performance enhancing hormones than their cisgendered peers.

You're telling us, in effect, that you consider taking performance -decreasing- substances as a way to cheat. How does that make any kind of sense?

It's insane to call the advantages of being male in sports shaky. Like, bonkers insane. Taking performance decreasing drugs does not decrease to the level of a woman, who went through puberty without loads of testosterone in her body. I mean obviously. But if you think being male isnt a proven advantage in sports. Even though the record in every single sport ever is held by men, that holds objective records, then there is really no point in having a conversation about it.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's insane to call the advantages of being male in sports shaky. Like, bonkers insane.

If you say so, but I would suggest that you take another look, particularly in the context of m-f trans.  

Currently, there is no direct or consistent research suggesting transgender female individuals (or male individuals) have an athletic advantage at any stage of their transition

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357259/

Strangely, their male advantages..whatever those are supposed to be, seem to vanish even -before- surgery.

Taking performance decreasing drugs does not decrease to the level of a woman, who went through puberty without loads of testosterone in her body. I mean obviously.  But if you think being male isnt a proven advantage in sports. Even though the record in every single sport ever is held by men,  that holds objective records, then there is really no point in having a conversation about it.

If the levels of performance enhancing substances within a trans athletes body is too high, the ioc..for example, won't let them compete.  That fully transitioned athletes have lower levels of performance enhancing substances than their cisgendered peers is an effect of suppresants and surgery..and nothing about having gone through puberty as a male changes that.

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-the same is true in the case of f-m trans, btw.  If their levels of performance enhancing substances are higher than the male limit (and hey, they're actively taking them as part of their transition..so it could happen) they would also be rejected...by and large, however, they are not. What we have, in sum, is no indication that there is any advantage to being a trans athlete at any point in process...with the terminus being a state in which they are flatly performance inferior compared to cisgendered peers...as far as we understand and regulate the underlying biology of performance in sports.

In counterpoint to this, people just keep repeating some version of that thing no one is saying.