Theists: how do you account for psychopaths?

[Amarok]

That's not morality that's camouflage

[Edwardo Piet]

People never have the ability to choose what they don't care about. Choosing to do something already implies that they care about what they choose in some way. Caring about not getting caught isn't caring about not doing the wrong thing. The latter is something psychopaths can never choose.

Right, I was talking about behavior. They may not care about morality for its own sake or care about other people, but they can still choose to behave morally. ...Presumably as not to jeopardise their own well being.  

What exactly is the argument again?

Well... why did God allow people without a conscience to exist?

Sure, they'll behave good if they're so worried they'll get caught. But then again, they may just hurt people and avoid getting caught. Why would God allow psychopaths?

And if all that matters is the behavior, from God's perspective, why does he make 1% of people psychopaths but 99% of people non-psychopaths? What's the point of a conscience if psychopaths can still behave good?

Sure, they CAN, but only when they have to.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can think of no more dehumanizing or inhumane thing than subjecting people to pain and suffering and privation on the notion that it's for their own good, while refusing to ever explain what possible good any of it might effect.

In this way both god and all of it;s adherents who espouse this trash dehumanize the entirety of the species and reject any notion of justice, informed consent, or agency, instituting a divine tyranny over the lives of every single thing that has or will ever live. We would pillory a person that attempted to do so over even a fraction of us, and be undeniably justified in that act.

We accept this language..just the language, only by virtue of being a willing accomplice or on the presumption that anyone who mouths it is completely deluded and entirely powerless to make reality conform to their twisted psyches.

[Anomalocaris]

What is there to account for? Psychopaths are the only men who are made in the image of the totally capricious god. All other man have better morals built with facilities for restraint developed and tested through evolution.

[Catholic_Lady]

Right, I was talking about behavior. They may not care about morality for its own sake or care about other people, but they can still choose to behave morally. ...Presumably as not to jeopardise their own well being.  

What exactly is the argument again?

Well... why did God allow people without a conscience to exist?

Sure, they'll behave good if they're so worried they'll get caught. But then again, they may just hurt people and avoid getting caught. Why would God allow psychopaths?

And if all that matters is the behavior, from God's perspective, why does he make 1% of people psychopaths but 99% of people non-psychopaths? What's the point of a conscience if psychopaths can still behave good?

Sure, they CAN, but only when they have to.

For the same unknown reasons He allows any other disorder or disease to exist, I suppose. Those are all natural consequences of a natural world. To prevent them, He'd have to divinely intervene every time they would happen, and this wouldn't be a natural world anymore. Why Did He choose to allow the world to be this way, instead of all magical? I don't know. But I do trust that if a God does exist, He knows much better than I do.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well... why did God allow people without a conscience to exist?

Sure, they'll behave good if they're so worried they'll get caught. But then again, they may just hurt people and avoid getting caught. Why would God allow psychopaths?

And if all that matters is the behavior, from God's perspective, why does he make 1% of people psychopaths but 99% of people non-psychopaths? What's the point of a conscience if psychopaths can still behave good?

Sure, they CAN, but only when they have to.

For the same unknown reasons He allows any other disorder or disease to exist, I suppose. Those are all natural consequences of a natural world. To prevent them, He'd have to divinely intervene every time they would happen, and this wouldn't be a natural world anymore. Why Did He choose to allow the world to be this way, instead of all magical? I don't know. But I do trust that if a God does exist, He knows much better than I do.

This is the best answer I've ever seen on this thread "For the same reason he allows any other disorder."

Indeed. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Now though, the question is, why does God allow any disorder to happen? Why does God allow childhood cancer to happen? And other serious diseases to happen to innocent children and animals? And extremely painful ones too? And childhood cancer existed in the past before pain medicine was allowed as well?

So I guess your answer is it is, indeed, an unknown reason. You say he must have a good reason. Well... I am not convinced. I really think if the God of the Bible exists he's not as good as he or the Bible claims him to be. Or at least not as competent as it is claimed that he is. Either his powers are a lot more limited than they're claimed to be, or he's not a good God. Or both.

Or he doesn't exist.

[The Grand Nudger]

I dont see why constant divine intervention would be required.  We seek to reduce or eliminate these problems without that crutch and have had some success..presumably, the author of all biology has the tech specs and wouldn;t need to come down and wave a wand at everyone all the goddamned time.

All I see is another version of "god wont do what men would do for unknown but completely real reasons, even though I can't articulate what those could possibly be - it;s better this way".

What would the problem with this being a supernatural world be, if it had to be done that way, anyway? To hear the story told it already -is- a supernatural world. Something is awry...........

[Catholic_Lady]

For the same unknown reasons He allows any other disorder or disease to exist, I suppose. Those are all natural consequences of a natural world. To prevent them, He'd have to divinely intervene every time they would happen, and this wouldn't be a natural world anymore. Why Did He choose to allow the world to be this way, instead of all magical? I don't know. But I do trust that if a God does exist, He knows much better than I do.

This is the best answer I've ever seen on this thread "For the same reason he allows any other disorder."

Indeed. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Now though, the question is, why does God allow any disorder to happen? Why does God allow childhood cancer to happen? And other serious diseases to happen to innocent children and animals? And extremely painful ones too? And childhood cancer existed in the past before pain medicine was allowed as well?

So I guess your answer is it is, indeed, an unknown reason. You say he must have a good reason. Well... I am not convinced. I really think if the God of the Bible exists he's not as good as he or the Bible claims him to be. Or at least not as competent as it is claimed that he is. Either his powers are a lot more limited than they're claimed to be, or he's not a good God. Or both.

Or he doesn't exist.

I'm only a little human living in a tiny part of the universe for a tiny amount of time, in the face of all eternity. All I can see is the here and now, this tiny portion, not even close to the big picture. I'm not going to presume to know better than a being who can see everything. It makes sense logically, but I understand how hard it is to accept, emotionally. Especially when going through very difficult times.

[Foxaèr]

What I see is people making excuses for a being that is not doing anything to defend itself almost as though he does not exist to defend himself; thus making human excuses for a human concoction of an imaginative divinity that just does not exist anywhere except in the human mind.

[Edwardo Piet]

This is the best answer I've ever seen on this thread "For the same reason he allows any other disorder."

Indeed. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Now though, the question is, why does God allow any disorder to happen? Why does God allow childhood cancer to happen? And other serious diseases to happen to innocent children and animals? And extremely painful ones too? And childhood cancer existed in the past before pain medicine was allowed as well?

So I guess your answer is it is, indeed, an unknown reason. You say he must have a good reason. Well... I am not convinced. I really think if the God of the Bible exists he's not as good as he or the Bible claims him to be. Or at least not as competent as it is claimed that he is. Either his powers are a lot more limited than they're claimed to be, or he's not a good God. Or both.

Or he doesn't exist.

I'm only a little human living in a tiny part of the universe for a tiny amount of time, in the face of all eternity. All I can see is the here and now, this tiny portion, not even close to the big picture. I'm not going to presume to know better than a being who can see everything. It makes sense logically, but I understand how hard it is to accept, emotionally. Especially when going through very difficult times.

But you do presume that such a being has a good reason for allowing awful things to happen to innocent children and animals.