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Letting me use my imagination? But, I will just assume you were on some mad drug at the time...
(September 17, 2011 at 3:56 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I asked Jesus to reveal himself to me once when I was twelve.
I got flashed by a creepy bum in a trenchcoat that afternoon. I decided right there that I didn't want to see the burning bush, let alone hear it talking.
I was almost in tears after reading this... It is very amusing.
(September 17, 2011 at 3:38 pm)lucent Wrote: If you want to know He is real, ask Him to reveal Himself to you in prayer. He just might do it.
You assume that anyone who is an atheist hasn't tried. How do you know we haven't tried and found him to be either nonexistent or a product of the mind?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Well, I wouldn't try to pingeonhole everyone. From my experience, I have encountered ex-christian atheists who grew up in the faith but never really gave their life to Jesus, and then fell away later when they encountered the skepticism the world has for Him. I have also encountered atheists who consider trying to find God as praying a couple of times and then dismissing it because they didn't hear anything.
What the scripture says is this:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So, if you approach God with the attitude of "well, ill try this just in case", I doubt you're going to hear anything back. Imagine if you were under the rule of a King, and you sent the King a letter saying something like.."Hey, I don't really believe in you or your rule, and I definitely don't respect your authority..but hey could I have some of your gold anyway? if you do maybe ill respect you k thanks." You'd probably be in the gallows the next day. But this is Gods attitude towards us:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
So while I acknowledge some may have tried in their own way, I know God does reward those who dilligently seek Him, just from my own experience. I certainly never would have become a Christian otherwise.
(September 17, 2011 at 6:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
(September 17, 2011 at 3:38 pm)lucent Wrote: If you want to know He is real, ask Him to reveal Himself to you in prayer. He just might do it.
You assume that anyone who is an atheist hasn't tried. How do you know we haven't tried and found him to be either nonexistent or a product of the mind?
September 18, 2011 at 5:58 am (This post was last modified: September 18, 2011 at 6:01 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(September 18, 2011 at 5:55 am)lucent Wrote: Well, I wouldn't try to pingeonhole everyone. From my experience, I have encountered ex-christian atheists who grew up in the faith but never really gave their life to Jesus, and then fell away later when they encountered the skepticism the world has for Him.
I have also encountered atheists who consider trying to find God as praying a couple of times and then dismissing it because they didn't hear anything.
What the scripture says is this:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So, if you approach God with the attitude of "well, ill try this just in case", I doubt you're going to hear anything back. Imagine if you were under the rule of a King, and you sent the King a letter saying something like.."Hey, I don't really believe in you or your rule, and I definitely don't respect your authority..but hey could I have some of your gold anyway? if you do maybe ill respect you k thanks." You'd probably be in the gallows the next day. But this is Gods attitude towards us:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
So while I acknowledge some may have tried in their own way, I know God does reward those who dilligently seek Him, just from my own experience. I certainly never would have become a Christian otherwise.
(September 17, 2011 at 6:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
(September 17, 2011 at 3:38 pm)lucent Wrote: If you want to know He is real, ask Him to reveal Himself to you in prayer. He just might do it.
You assume that anyone who is an atheist hasn't tried. How do you know we haven't tried and found him to be either nonexistent or a product of the mind?
Liar :drama-free:
Others may have the correct terminology for your staements lucious but it would appear to me that you are trying the "I'm a victimised xtian" and laying it on just a bit too thick.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Not sure where you're getting that from. Never claimed to be victimized by anyone..
(September 18, 2011 at 5:58 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
(September 18, 2011 at 5:55 am)lucent Wrote: Well, I wouldn't try to pingeonhole everyone. From my experience, I have encountered ex-christian atheists who grew up in the faith but never really gave their life to Jesus, and then fell away later when they encountered the skepticism the world has for Him.
I have also encountered atheists who consider trying to find God as praying a couple of times and then dismissing it because they didn't hear anything.
What the scripture says is this:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
So, if you approach God with the attitude of "well, ill try this just in case", I doubt you're going to hear anything back. Imagine if you were under the rule of a King, and you sent the King a letter saying something like.."Hey, I don't really believe in you or your rule, and I definitely don't respect your authority..but hey could I have some of your gold anyway? if you do maybe ill respect you k thanks." You'd probably be in the gallows the next day. But this is Gods attitude towards us:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
So while I acknowledge some may have tried in their own way, I know God does reward those who dilligently seek Him, just from my own experience. I certainly never would have become a Christian otherwise.
(September 17, 2011 at 6:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
(September 17, 2011 at 3:38 pm)lucent Wrote: If you want to know He is real, ask Him to reveal Himself to you in prayer. He just might do it.
You assume that anyone who is an atheist hasn't tried. How do you know we haven't tried and found him to be either nonexistent or a product of the mind?
Liar :drama-free:
Others may have the correct terminology for your staements lucious but it would appear to me that you are trying the "I'm a victimised xtian" and laying it on just a bit too thick.
I am incapable of sincerely believing that you were once a skeptical agnostic, and are now a Christian. I know a lot of Christians just like to say that because it adds impact to their claim of a supernatural experiences and faith. Do you think that your mind is so exceptional that it is incapable of delusion? Silly! You have an animal brain just like the rest of us. It is highly susceptible to any form of psychosis. If you were REALLY a skeptic, you would have questioned it tirelessly, maybe even seeking professional help until you had found the truth behind your gloriously spiritual euphoria.
I am not calling you a liar, but I am suggesting that you may not have ever been what you thought you were.
September 18, 2011 at 9:05 am (This post was last modified: September 18, 2011 at 9:06 am by Justtristo.)
(September 18, 2011 at 8:51 am)aleialoura Wrote: Hello. Welcome to the forums.
For the record, and up front-
I am incapable of sincerely believing that you were once a skeptical agnostic, and are now a Christian. I know a lot of Christians just like to say that because it adds impact to their claim of a supernatural experiences and faith. Do you think that your mind is so exceptional that it is incapable of delusion? Silly! You have an animal brain just like the rest of us. It is highly susceptible to any form of psychosis. If you were REALLY a skeptic, you would have questioned it tirelessly, maybe even seeking professional help until you had found the truth behind your gloriously spiritual euphoria.
I am not calling you a liar, but I am suggesting that you may not have ever been what you thought you were.
If you are not already familar with it, there is something called no true Scotsman fallacy. You cannot automatically assume that because this poster was once considered themselves a "sceptical agnostic", they would do automatically x, in the event they experienced y.
I will admit I am very sceptical sometimes when I hear some Christian say they were once an atheist. However I am also aware if I were to assume that about that particular Christian, I would be committing the no true scotsman fallacy.
I am incapable of sincerely believing that you were once a skeptical agnostic, and are now a Christian. I know a lot of Christians just like to say that because it adds impact to their claim of a supernatural experiences and faith. Do you think that your mind is so exceptional that it is incapable of delusion? Silly! You have an animal brain just like the rest of us. It is highly susceptible to any form of psychosis. If you were REALLY a skeptic, you would have questioned it tirelessly, maybe even seeking professional help until you had found the truth behind your gloriously spiritual euphoria.
I am not calling you a liar, but I am suggesting that you may not have ever been what you thought you were.
I'm with you on this one, aleialoura. We've heard this song before - a former "agnostic" turned christian. It's an attempt to make himself appear to be an "authority" on both agnosticism and christianity. I say this conversion story is pure bullshit, especially this part: "I spent many years after that searching for God, by exploring every different belief system, from hinduism to judiasm, to the more esoteric like jainism and kundalini yoga." We are now to believe that this guy has studied all forms of religion and came to the conclusion that the god of christianity is the only true god. Fucking Poe.
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
Lucent, thanks for sharing these personal experiences with us.
I understand to some extent where you are coming from. I shared an experience I had, which is on this thread:
I must admit, that since sharing my 'experience', I have become far more skeptical about it. The guys here, for all their 'sharp' words at times, did make me re-evaluate what I thought I had experienced. I'm open to it having been 'in the mind', although I'm still not sure.
When I read about your 'landscape' experience, I'm straightaway thinking that you did have some kind of hallucination, due to you admitting you have had them before. I would be very interested in hearing the rest of your story. Please pm me if you have the time. I'm a reluctant Christian at best, but some days I'm veering to atheism- but not quite. The one thing I don't seem to ever lose, is hope - hope that there is more to this life, that love (in us) does live on. Glad you've joined the forum and thanks again for sharing this very interesting personal experience.
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"
I can appreciate your skepticism. I likewise know a lot of atheists who have claimed to be ex-christians so they can have the talking point of having tried it and rejected it. I've even met some who claimed to be pastors but didn't know anything about scripture.
All I can tell you is that I was a strict materialist who doubted all religious claims and saw no evidence for a spirit. I grew up in a secular household, had secular beliefs, and thought religious people were delusional. I had no predisposition for a belief in God what so ever. It was only after receiving direct experience that I changed my mind, and I put all of these beliefs to the test and still do.
I can also tell you that when I was an agnostic, I was likewise skeptical of atheism. Philosophically, I couldn't comprehend how anyone could end up there just based on empiricism alone. The limitations of actual knowledge being what they are, I saw atheism just as much of a leap of faith as theism. I was agnostic and not atheist specifically because I thought atheism was philosophically weak and indefensible. I had equal skepticism for both positive and negative claims about God.
(September 18, 2011 at 8:51 am)aleialoura Wrote: Hello. Welcome to the forums.
For the record, and up front-
I am incapable of sincerely believing that you were once a skeptical agnostic, and are now a Christian. I know a lot of Christians just like to say that because it adds impact to their claim of a supernatural experiences and faith. Do you think that your mind is so exceptional that it is incapable of delusion? Silly! You have an animal brain just like the rest of us. It is highly susceptible to any form of psychosis. If you were REALLY a skeptic, you would have questioned it tirelessly, maybe even seeking professional help until you had found the truth behind your gloriously spiritual euphoria.
I am not calling you a liar, but I am suggesting that you may not have ever been what you thought you were.
