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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 12:18 am
(November 21, 2018 at 12:11 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Excellent. So;
Door facts are those facts about doors which : Independent of a single mind, or multiple minds, under the same conditions the description facts remain the same.
Moral facts are those facts about morality which : Independent of a single mind, or multiple minds, under the same conditions the description facts remain the same.
Aaaaaa, but don't morals require a judgement of actions, not descriptions. Just googled "moral" and each definition spoke to actions that seemed to require a judgement, which would not be mind independent, single or multiple.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 12:22 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2018 at 12:23 am by The Grand Nudger.)
A moral conclusion is a judgement. Moral facts are what we build those out of. We also make judgements about doors..built out of door facts.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 12:32 am
(November 21, 2018 at 12:22 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: A moral conclusion is a judgement. Moral facts are what we build those out of. We also make judgements about doors..built out of door facts.
Ain't the same thing and I think you're just holding a position. A fact(s) of morals are not the same as a fact(s) of doors. If you contend that they are the same then the definitions or moral(s) I just looked at are pointless.
Enough for tonight, old man bed time.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 12:35 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2018 at 12:37 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 21, 2018 at 12:32 am)wyzas Wrote: (November 21, 2018 at 12:22 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: A moral conclusion is a judgement. Moral facts are what we build those out of. We also make judgements about doors..built out of door facts.
Ain't the same thing and I think you're just holding a position. Can you explain why it's not? That was sort of the point of the entire exercise. Not to convince you that there are moral facts..only that, if there were, they would be like other facts.
Quote:A fact(s) of morals are not the same as a fact(s) of doors.
-and shoe facts are not the same as door facts.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:14 am
(November 21, 2018 at 12:22 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: A moral conclusion is a judgement. Moral facts are what we build those out of. We also make judgements about doors..built out of door facts.
Please provide a list of these moral facts of which you speak. 
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:16 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2018 at 1:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
The moral fact of harm, is one of the most commonly referenced.
(mostly because you can derive an immense range of moral conclusions by reference to this single fact)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:19 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2018 at 1:19 am by Chas.)
(November 20, 2018 at 11:40 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: However, what I was referring to..is that the contention of moral facts is not in any way obviously different from the contention that there are bird facts. Or shoe facts. Or door facts.
Birds, shoes, and doors actually exist so there are facts about them. Please demonstrate there are morals that exist.
Quote:Or...you see where I'm going..I;m sure. Does that bring any clarity?
Not really.
Quote:-ultimately, there may not be...but if that's so...one immediately has to reassess their case for bird facts, shoe facts, door facts, etc.
No one has yet offered any incontrovertible moral facts here.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:20 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2018 at 1:20 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 21, 2018 at 1:19 am)Chas Wrote: Birds, shoes, and doors actually exist so there are facts about them. Please demonstrate there are morals that exist. So does harm. Demonstrating that there are morals ought to be pretty simple. You have some..right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:27 am
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RE: Christian morality delusions
November 21, 2018 at 1:30 am
Fun q for the theists in the thread. Notice how many questions I've responded to without a single reference to a god? Ask yourselves this...what would the addition of a god do for any of my answers? What would the subtraction of a god cause to be lost?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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