How to discuss religion with believers?

[Brian37]

Drich, dear, you are ignorance on parade.  The Big Bang Theory made testable predictions:

Wikipedia -- Observational Evidence of Big Bang Theory

What testable predictions does "And, God did it" make?

The evidence you're claiming is inconclusive and literally filled with holes.  To fill in the holes, they have proposed dark matter.  They propose that around 85 percent of the matter must be dark matter, yet nobody has been able to show any.   Seems like an exceptionally big problem.

Uggg, you cannot complain about criticism of of old mythology, then talk about science. If you are going to argue against science, hate to burst your bubble, but that does not point to your club or God. The only thing attacking a scientific claim can do is debunk that claim, it still would not point to Allah or Buddha or Jesus, or Yahweh or Vishnu.

If a scientific claim is debunked, and the big bang is CONFIRMED and has been repeatedly over decades, but the only thing that confirms or debunks a claim is peer review, and religion is not peer review, because religion is bias and scientific method is neutral, separate from, and independent of any religious labels or god claims.

Muslims and Jews and Buddhist and Hindus, also pull this tactic too.

When the apologist cannot flat out sell "Hey I think this is neat", they resort to attacking science and say, "You don't know everything", then when they cant do that, they resort to, "Science points to my club/holy writing/ deity/s. 

There is absolutely no dispute within the scientific community at that level of those who discovered microwave background radiation that the big bang theory DOES make predictions. That is the very definition of a theory.

Now show me where in your holy book where you see the letter for letter words "Dark matter" or "microwave background radiation" and show me the formulas in that holy writing that back up those words. Hint, "God did it" is not an answer.

[Jehanne]

21) I don't know, this section sounds as if you somehow agree with what I wrote before about limitations. In this paragraph you seem aware you don't have any intrinsic limitations. Of course life can present all kind of restrictions (eg abusive parents, nasty bosses, nasty people in general who try to block and hinder you, or life circumstances where you are physically blocked), but deep inside you don't really have any instrinsic limitations. Given enough freedom, you can unleash your potential. That's what I meant.

Your belief as I understand it. We set our own limitations. My statement I have never limited myself however at the time when I could bearly read my limits were set by society in the way of not many high paying jobs for people who can not read. Meaning it is evident that both are true. one can limit themselves and soceity can place limits on you.

Again, This is my telling, doubting thomas need and got to put his hands in the wounds of Christ. That's the whole point to my telling of my story is to relay to you that God is willing to do the same type of thing for me as he is willing to do for you. Now Imagine how much doubt I have after living though all of that. which is why it is Said He is willing to cast a mountain of doubt into the ocean if you can simply generate a mustardseeds worth of faith. again we expend more faith in global warming than what is needed for God to work a life as he has mine.

22) Refer to 4)

and again if an important person in this world will not meet you on your own terms then why expect God to meet you on your terms.. who are you to demand God perform tricks for you?

If you read the OP of that story I make the point you just made in that it is not about where the angel came from as it is more about the origins of the message and of they ring true or not. You are focused on the material man to determine authenticity when in truth a messenger is nothing without the message. let's say you met the angel that told marry she was going to have Jesus.. real deal guy. for you there is no doubt who this fella is, but he has nothing to say to you. now let put you in front of your computer at home in your current situation bang out doubt insulsts and the like.. then you come across one of GC posts that while you dismiss cuts you to your quick, you know what is being said may be a generic quip for GC but speaks to you directly to the point you almost feel bad or a conviction as if God were indeed calling you. I ask you now who is the angel who is the messenger God sent? The guy who spoke to marry or the guy who deep down has pierced your heart in some way?

At the time my idea of angels were not dirty homeless black men. but the message rang 100% true, the fact I spoke to in in thought shook me to no end, the fact he recited special prayers I prayed in secrete shook me to my core, the very wrds I used to pray for me and another person almost had me stop driving. this man not only pierced my heart with out a word of who I was or what I was about He knew me eve if I could not fully recognise him today 

23) Lol, was this really what it looked like with GC post? Then I'll correct your misunderstanding: GC was the easiest post to dismiss because it dismissed itself on its own by saying "I won't reply back". In spite of this, I still played by his rules because I like games and I don't mind overkill, and so I replied to his weak points, to which I naturally received no answer. More than "pierced my heart" it never hit the target to begin with. It just reminded me of one of psychforums user, Rob K, who used to drop random non-sensical and disconnected replies in every thread to later edit his posts with a dot ".". (P.S. I didn't remember the guy's nick so I went back to that forum and re-read some of my ancient posts from 7y ago and I was delighted in seeing that my thought process has been consistent throughout these years after the realization I had at 21. I'd say that was the most important period of my life: when I realized that nothing matters).

Glob take GC out of the equasion and plug in huggy CL or me. The point is NOT WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH!!!! BUT THE MESSAGE Read what I wrote again. If literal angel of God made himself know to you and had nothing to say to you he would literally be less of an angel if one of us brought you a message that cut you to your quick.
trying to get you to look outside the box in how the Holy Spirit sends messages to you.

did you miss the bit about being consumed by Hell fire? did you miss the part where it illicites the same response as if being burned? that eventually it consumes the soul or at least the part that holds together out sanity?

24) Reconnecting to point 10), so there is some sort of physical pain/discomfort associated with this hellfire? Or it's just what you personally felt at the realization that he ignored/didn't love you? I mean, it doesn't sound such a big deal for an intangible, invisible individual to not love you :/

there is an initial panic of disolving into hell, then the oh, my God this panic is going to be forever... Then but I know I belong here because I do not fit in with he love in Heaven then it was I know I belong here but would I have done anything different if I had known the truth? Could I have been apart of that love, that was going to be the thing that ate my sanity.. I know I belong but did I need to be here was I truly evil? That part I did not know and that part is why I answer questions so that you know.. again the hell fire was sheer removal from clam rational thought an instant conversion to primal guttural responses that gave way to fore your mind to the forefront to try and think through this just to be crushed by the idea of infinity. once your sanity is gone then it really doesn't matter what happens to the rest of you as what makes you you is consumed by the fire. I think however this process of being consumed by the fire takes longer the more wicked you are.

till your eye glasses broke.. 

26) Ahah, it reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKgjahj-3qg

Something like that however My mind went to the orginal

more or less. in those days inorder to marry in or become a member of the famly you wrkes first as a slave. same kinda of thing here. We are saved from sin which makes us members or citizens f heaven, but the great reward comes if you serve and become a son of God.

27) Then I refuse to serve someone who doesn't even bother to show up after "demanding".

So you would not work for anyone who did not serve your need to be the authority? maybe you could open up a coffee shop.

So here is exactly what I meant about faith in science and how it takes less faith for belief in God.,, Now to you since 2018 the hole narritive has taken a sharp change in that now there was never a hole. when in 85 when the were selling the taxes that would save us there was a definate hole.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...eclining1/

28) I wasn't even born in '85, but it's not like the understanding of the average citizen about these thematics has improved much. I said it before, I chose chemistry as my discipline because it's the scientific subject that most closely helps you understand reality at its very basic level. Chemists are the bastards behind the scenes that help big companies put leverage on natural phenomenons to gain some (economical) advantage. I'll reveal you some "secret" about the industry of electric cars or hydrogen cars: there is no such thing as "clean" energy as they advertise it. It is true that electric cars do not pollute, but where do you think you get electricity? Yes, you burn coal. You just displaced the polluting source. It is true that burning hydrogen only produces water and so it is safe. But how do you get hydrogen? You burn methane. You just moved the polluting source out of your customer's eyes. 

yeah kinda had that discussion with a brother in law 20 years ago when he bough one of the first hybrids. concerning the process in making batteries and then plugging into a coal fire electrical grid who down time was at nigh which if everyone bought a pos electric car would never have an off peak time. You were trading one form of pollution for two or three others.

One of my professors even boasted about his success because he defended in a court trial a nasty factory that was polluting a river, and he won because he made some leverage on the weak points of the accuse. He knew his stuff. When you have to deal with this kind of people, all the nice and ideal world they advertise on TV just disappears. But I am grateful to these nasty individuals, because in the attempt to "form" us they also teach us how it really functions out there. Just like global warming was always a thing but it was overexagerated here and there for some profit. 

agree. once they saw the trillions coming out of the ozone thing they sought out the next sky is falling money maker.. "Carbon credits" was a tax they were going to push to save the world from global warming. To be worked like bit coin, guess who held the reserve of credits... Mr. Al Gore Himself.

I don't know in which country you live, but here they banished gasoline containing lead compounds and the reason given was "because lead is toxic". Do you want to know which was the real reason? "It was too expensive to maintain, it's easier the other way". But when you have to take out something from the market, you need a strong reason, a strong driving force and so you embellish the reason to make the transition easier and more painless. The industry, first and foremost, cares about the profit. No one gives a shit about people safety.

yes agree here as well.

If there is a thing I learnt, is that there is always an equilibrium. If something is too good to be true, then it's most likely that. But to discover such things, I think you need to be inside "it" or have someone who is together with the nasties.

Its a simple pattern. Find a hungry scientist 'fund' him to find whatever it is you need. They will always find proof, make people aware documentry or movie or even social media now, 'lobby' politicians/Pay them to make a stink change policy reap billions because of market shift.

repeat.

Here's the thing with "higher learning' Most people here on this web site will only accept information if it comes filter through certain sources we in school been trained to recognise that is why the 2016 campaign keep blaming hillary's non land slide victory to uneducated people. because all the indoctrinated pro clinton material was being provided by these accepted sources and she still lost. meaning dumb people were not smart enough to blindly believe everything we were being told. This structure of transmitting and receiving 'public knowledge' is ingrained into us by 'higher learning' facilities. Facilities that demand we think the same way that we reason the same way that demand we share common morality and values, and yes demand we hate anything not up to our standards. That is why anything with the 'science' frame work around it is believed as absolute truth. I was on board in 85 to 93, but then I saw what it was about. they took a product off the market that sold for .50 a pound and at the end of the production run because this country desperately needed a refrigerant that the one company who sponsored the global initiative who found the hole in the OZone who sold the old stuff and produced the new, was able to sell a .50 12 oz can for 300.00 then sell the new stuff for 150.00

Now FF 20 year and the patents have now run out on the new stuff that sell for 6.00 a 12 oz can just like the patents on the old stuff ran out in 93. Now the new stuff has been found to dramatically increases the global warming effect and must now also be bann so we can not pay 400 to 600 dollars for a 12 oz can of refrigerant.

Duponte scientist said it it must be true..

Did you watch the movie the fox catcher? it was about how f-ing crazy the CEO of duponte was in the 1980's but also how smart and the fact he had so much money he literally owned everythig around him. This is his scam played out by governments now.

then you would be most likely responsible to see the crack head die inside of a week of a overdose.

29) Nope. Everyone is responsible for his own demise. It may be a "strong" way to put it, but "the weak deserves to die so the strong may flourish" or "the weak deserve their fate" or any variation of this phrase. And I will accept it if, one day, I'll take the fall because I wasn't fit enough. That's how it should be.

Give a monkey a gun and if he shoots someone it is not the monkey's fault. In turn give a crack head a million dollars and he OD's in a week you indeed killed him. Someone like that has no internal control anymore the demon of addiction has taken control, and it will make them use till the money or their breath runs out.

the law, if you are not save and whether or not you have accepted the atonement offered.

30) What does the atonement consist in? For example, you said that 
On the simple side it is praying "Dear lord I know I am a sinner/broken your laws, and I know I will continue to do so for the rest of my life however I ask that you forgive me of my sins again you and my fellow man any way. Then as a start you must live out this example of forgiving those who sin against you. This make take a while if you have an a-hole father as I do, but over time try and forgive those as if it where you who needed forgivness. the rest will come over time. Meaning trying to resist or abstaining from sin will be something you will eventually want to do even if you can't. That is call repentance. where you internally hate sin even if you are still tied to it. Paul explains this in much better detail in romans chapters 6,7 and 8

tell that to the illiterate who just magical began to pick it up.. As it says in scripture you do not need a teacher as the very one (the holy Spirit) who wrote the scriptures also instructs you. all you need is the bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV

You don't need commentary. God will give you what you can handle as you read it. Meaning a cursory read through will most likely draw out major contrasts between your version of God and the God of the bible/you will want to point out contradictions as you see them. This is seeking God. take those contradictions to me or one like me and pray "dear god help me figure out the truth amen" till you find something that jives.

31) But I had already taken that route way back then, when I could have been the most inclined to buy in that story.

and you tested the god you found and got back total silence. so then you rebuild have that verion of God tested and you rebuild. not every verion will be 100% wrong, so you hold on to what is right and rebuild everything else. I'd say in side a year you could have a good working understanding of Who god is and how he works.

I even went to one of my professor's house twice a week because I wanted him to properly teach me christianity, not like those lazy guys at the afterschool, and he was very moderate and decent in his teachings without overdoing it. But the more he taught me, the less I was inclined to buy it. Then I tried reading it on my own and I was still unconvinced. It just looked like "administer good sense" sort of general advice. Afterwards I stepped up my game and I went ahead with my homemade summoning rituals (lol), then tried other ways but in the end nothing happened (and it's not really surprising me now).

we are supposed to fail alot. because what we are doing is pealing away the personal I want a god who does... and are left with the God described in scripture.

Also, I clicked on that link you provided but it just narrates the story of Jesus. I already know that. I was taught that in school, then I saw some documentary about it, there were movies about it, parodies about it. I think I assimilated that story in all kind of variations and what's written in that website isn't any different from what I already know. And it remained a story. The same story I remembered. Did I overlook something important?

Jesus does tell us how to obtain the Holy Spirit He tells us the difference between petition and prayer he shows us it is the Holy Spirit that empowers Him and will also be sent to us to give us more than what even he was able to do.

EXTRA question:

Since I think you can provide me a clarification like you did before, I have some questions that were always answered vaguely:
1) Why God put an apple tree in the Eden in the first place?

Not free will (that is a late 1200 greek construct/philosophy but to give us choice yes the bible/ God sees us as slaves to him or sin but even slaves had choice. The tree was choice to be in (not the city of heaven but to be in his presence/heaven or to serve a master of sin who promises complete freedom but only dilivers pain and suffering. Imagine that God created Adam and eve right after the earth was formed 100 bazzillion years or go or whatever 'science says now.' and he planted the seeds that would later become the oceans land animals plants birds and even man outside the garden. But inside the garden God created a paradise that would resemble what the world would evolve into about (6000 or so years ago) Why then? because God knew that was when the fall was going to be. Yes he would loose Adam and eve but because he planted those seeds the people from the garden would have a world and better yet a people to bless with souls when their kids and their kids kids had children. To one day populate the world with people with souls. So that the may all experience sin. So when it came time to make the choice Eve made (but in reverse/she was alive with God and died, and we in sin are dead to God but choose to live) we would not be courious about sin and could choose (if we chose God) without question or reservation. We could enter heaven and have our sin curiosity quota filled.

So why do this and why not make a race of people in heaven? He did that already with the angels. and over 1/3 of them fell surcombing to sin. lucifer's temptation being too great. So it is written we will live in a place with God for 1000 years. (all of the saved) then satan will be let loose one more time to temp the saved one more time to give those who changed their minds about serving God an way out. Then he and those who want to go with him will be seal in hell for ever. Again it is and it always is about choosing To be with God.

Adam and Eve were given this choice created to be immortal and living with God potentially for billions if not trillions of years before temptation ate them alive, to the point they died from their imortal lives and was given over to the pain and suffering of life outside the garden. This life for us is about the same choice, and we will get a third chance in the next. In short God wants to ensure those who seek to spend eternity with him want to be there under his rule and grace. because eternity is a long long time.

Like ok, you created Adam and Eve and put them in Eden and you tell them they can do whatever they want but they have to stay away from the apple tree. Why not put some fence around it if it was so precious? Why show them the apple tree at all? Also, apple is one of the most boring fruits, they probably wouldn't have even considered it at all if God didn't tell them about it. It's like asking a kid "don't press this giant red button". 

Imagine it was not an apple tree but just forbidden fruit. that could have been a metaphor for even sex. We don't know. but we do know they were given a 'garden' 2/3 the size of North america to explore and find adventure in. which is probably why it took them so long to finally give in.

Then you said that God gives each according to their ability: didn't he foresee that they would have been tempted by his prohibition? It's like he got what he asked for. To me it looks like he just wanted to find an excuse to mess up with them.

I think you don't get that it was the plan all along for the fall. why else plant man outsie the garden?

2) What do Hell, Purgatory

purgatory I found out was a religious construct and has no bearing in scripture. Turns out the R/C church was selling such a hard nose legalistic version of salvation no one saw themselves as 'good enough' so people started to giving up so purgatory was a stop gap measure to try and save those who mean well but can't quite cut the mustard. In truth there is no purgatory according to the bible, Jesus or the Apostles. In truth Christ divides us or looks at us and our thoughts and intentons/everything and makes a right honest fair judgement. The church back then took this power for themselves and made salvation conditional on everything they wanted.. including money owed, days you could miss, if you were tasked to build a new church out of pocket or the like. A good man who tried but died or failed needed a way to pay for failing but would ultimatly wind up in heaven, that is what pugatory is.

Hell is the grave or the pit or the destruction of the soul. Hell is the eternal imprisionment of Satan, everyone and everything else is destroyed by hell at some point or another. Again I thin the more evil you are the longer your torment but that is my view not the bible.

and Paradise represent exactly?

Paradise refers to the garden of eden which the muslims have taken for their after life while we and God as said to inhabbit a new heaven and a new earth after the resurrection and final judgement.

If they are not the grotesque depictions of Dante, then what are they exactly? 

ever watch a log being consumed and slowly broken down by a hot hot fire and coals till it is ash? that is hell for us. The log goes in whole and after a few mins the whole thing is still hold but blacked with ash where the fire begins to penetrate the wood and bark then the next stage the wood itself begins to burn where as before the fire heat and flames came from the outside burning inwards, but now at this stage the wood is cracking around it's edges and the flames are beginning to take hold in the out edges of the wood. next the log is fully involved meaning even if you took the log out of the fire the fire on the log would still burn, at this point the log is going to burn up no matter what, the big crack become scales while the bright light of the fire has died down the truly hot white/blue flames break the log down into scales and coal then those embers can go out or be stoked for the next log. Hell is a sentient version of that log.

- You already mentioned that Hell is like not feeling loved by god but at the same time it burns (physical burn?)

the absence of the love you know was offered is just apart of the regret that later consumes and destroys the mind. the idea of so much pain when you felt God's love and you know that could have been foreve makes you turn on yourself for being placed here.

- What is purgatory exactly then? Like, can you get out of hell and be promoted to purgatory, or once you get thrown there that's it? And if Purgatory is a place where to atone for the little sins you did, how do you atone exactly? Like, you just wait in a queue (like at the post office)? I always pictured purgatory as the post office queue.

see above

- What is heaven? Dante's depiction was so boring that I think I would have gone insane there. Hell may have been grotesque and weird but at least it sounded more fun than post-office-purgatory or boring-ass heaven. And once you arrive there, are you met by this old dude and sit on a cloud sofa or what? Can you watch TV? Play games? Eat pizza? Eat your lover? A heaven without those is as appealing as hell.

The universe stretches out forever we have forever... I believe the sons those who work as slaves and are trusted and becomes sons get to go out and each given to his ability.. to one an asteroid maybe to another a planet to develop or maybe to another a whole region of space.. or maybe we are given star ships and told to go explore. The bible does not say much but I know there is a reason for an infinite universe and an infinity amount of time to go and do. If adam and eve lasted billions of years in 2/3 the size of the USA how much more will there be for us to do and accomplish?

3) Please watch this 7 min video and tell me what you think about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E15IC3YKv8g 
It is clearly meant to be an analogy to the christian god, but done in a somewhat provocative way. I think you can give me an honest opinion without feeling offended or attacked. Our conversation has been going on for a while, so I think we sorted that stuff out already 

honestly it's a straw man Senerio. Remember when I said you built a version of God tested it and it proved it self to not be there? was that God's fault? this guy has gone off the rails. 1 Christianity is not about 'morality'/be good enough and go to heaven/be bad and go to hell.

This is why this video is straw man version of reality, because none of the ants had knowledge of God. this poor man assumes this is true for all of us. At the end the ants going into the oven were oblivious to everything going on while even to this guy if God is silent his word is not other wise he would know nothing of the over the words placed on tiny tablets the need or desire to not murder or wear cloths. The narrator is more aware of his God than the ants are yet he hides this fact in his straw man by making himself/us out to be ant but are unaware.

Let's say the ants where aware and 1/2 say the provider and did what was asked.. the other 1/2 hated the 'sell outs and demanded they simply remains ants and pretend they hear nothing. would it not then be provider's duty to then separate the ants? the one's who obey from those who do not? Would it not then be right to reward the faithful and punish the wicked? The analogy is crap because it does not closely follow the relationship it is trying to mock. this poor guy's idea of God is so far off outside of the idea of hell which is not exclusively christian there really is nothing of note being discussed unique christian.

I wish I could do videos man I would knock them out of the park.

If you want an analogy let's say the world every man woman and child is or has been infected with a legit A+B zombie virus not a destroy the brain but have to burn the body or any meaty part is comming for you and will trigger the undead cycle. meanig in this case the zombie virus is split and every person carries a "a" part of the virus and or a "b" part. So when A's die they seek bs and when "B"s die the seek A's. if you touch a blood being a b or b blood being an a or get bit or any type of a/b transfer (even close procimit coughing would cause the zombification process meaning a high fever causing brain partial death leaving only primal need to reproduce virus) hence bitting and bleeding

So a' and b's have to be separate.


Now lets say it's been a few years and a vaccine is found that neutralizes just  an a virus or just b, but if the two sides can come together before the vaccine and you get the combined blood you are zombie even if you had the vaccine for a or the b.

so FF 10 more years and a huge ultra modern city is built with huge walls, but out side it is still dangerous because supplies are low and A's are wandering into B territory looking for food and spawning zombies.. So that makes "the good people of both a and b group" want to enter this new city but the deal is you must take this vaccine. Which turns out to be the literal blood of the guy who built the city.. Say it was trump, and all you had to do to qualify to live in this new city was that you had to take this trump shot, but before you could, you must first openly honor and take a pledge to him and the city to work as a slave under him in this new city for an unspecified amount of time. most of which was going out into a or b land (being immune to either of the seperatly seeking people to join the city life.)

Recap:
So A blood plus b blood= Zombie
A's live in one 1/2 of the country and B's live in the other 1/2
Enter vaccine
A+ vaccine= ok to mix with b blood=vaccine This means A and B can co mingle safely again.
So A's and B's create a mega city in the middle of the country.

however:
if Zombie A and Zombie b mix before vaccine= can still infect vaccine a or b. Meaning a full on zombie can infect anyone even if they have the vaccine for a or b, which means people in the city can go out an co mingle with non vaccinated people but non vaccinated people can not come in the mega city

Now in this reality this shot.. is not contingent on who you where out side the city walls what you had o do to survive, whether you were a good a or a bad b or vise versa.. It's primary requirement is that you are not carring both a and b (been zombified but not dead yet/in the terms of Christianity sin loving evil person) and that you are wiling to pledge to follow trump law going forward and you take part in serve in what he is building.

But douche bag you tubers who only get their information 4th person from someone who heard trumps actual message when they were 4 th grade, feel like the truth is trump is looking for moral "A"s in B land  and douche bag youtubers say trump is looking for moral "B"s in A land. meaning looting stealing and basic survival stuff keeps you from entering the city... Then there are As and Bs who simply hate trump with all that they are. and also hate anyone who dare take his blood.

So Fast forward 10 more years and now no truth is left outside the walls. all who would take the vaccine have and drove the truth tellers away, and all that is left are those who hate trump and his city dewellers. All the while The hords chip away a city moral stating they should not have to take the oath that they should not have to be immunized they say they trumps rule is unfair and racist that it is against human nature to work under one person's vision or plan that it is not fair trump will not come to me directly and personally excuse me from all the BS everyone else has to do and on and on and on with what they feel like they are entitled to despite their lack of most basic efforts in trying to simply become a member of the city. So now both A's and B's are in close proxcimity to one another just outside the city walls. no one has kicked off the zombie outbreak yet but it is just a matter of time before they do.

To the people out side they are doing some stupid hippy style occupy wall street protest, when in truth they are incubating a world wide pandemic of uncontrolled zombie outbreak/evil, which is where we stand now. To which the only answer for those inside is Hell fire to cleanse away the hord.. But that is not what the horde see they see "The infected" wanting in the safe zone. citing their post fall of man pop-morality as being 'good enough' reason to allow them in, when in fact morality has nothing to do with it but everything to do with the blood of Christ and if you have it or not. whether or not you carry the virus or have been vaccinated!

Gish Gallop:

Wikipedia -- Gish gallop

You're turning into a part-time job, Drich.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

That's conjecture and uses circular logic.  It doesn't demonstrate dark matter.  It assumes dark matter and uses bullet clusters to try and support that conclusion instead of using bullet clusters to prove dark matter.

If I put out a mousetrap (system), it doesn't prove there is a mouse (object) in the house.  The idea of a mouse doesn't prove the system.  The system proves the mouse by identifying it.  As such we can conclude the mousetrap as an effective system.

And, so, you're saying that unless physicists can weigh electrons on a scale, then, they don't have mass?  Or, their mass cannot be precisely determined?

When something explodes, there's actually quite a bit of order to it.  Even know we see a universe where objects maintain their angular momentum as they expand outward.  For example, I believe it's something like 4 cm the moon moves away from the earth each year, and it's constant.  Angular momentum isn't going to change on its own in a closed system without some other force interfering.  This is a big reason why the CMB field has been a problem.  It's not as smooth as it should be, so to account for all the splits, gaps, pockets, or whatever else, something needs to have created them.  Part was the solution was to hypothesize dark matter to account for it.  Not only that, but asserting about 85 percent of the matter in the universe being such.  But if we can't confirm there is a such thing, then it's not reasonable to suggest it as a cause for anything.  And even if we did find something like it, we would still need to find a whole lot of it to make it work.

I'm not even going to go as far as to say it doesn't, or can't exist, but we need to identify first before suggesting it's causing something to happen.  Just posting a picture of a "small" explosion to illustrate.  You should be able to see in form that it's actually pretty organized as it expands.  There's nice symmetry on both sides as it explodes.

With that, I'll just stop by saying the whole matter is far more complicated, so this wasn't meant to be an end all explanation.

---

The evidence you're claiming is inconclusive and literally filled with holes.  To fill in the holes, they have proposed dark matter.  They propose that around 85 percent of the matter must be dark matter, yet nobody has been able to show any.   Seems like an exceptionally big problem.

Uggg, you cannot complain about criticism of of old mythology, then talk about science. If you are going to argue against science, hate to burst your bubble, but that does not point to your club or God. The only thing attacking a scientific claim can do is debunk that claim, it still would not point to Allah or Buddha or Jesus, or Yahweh or Vishnu.

If a scientific claim is debunked, and the big bang is CONFIRMED and has been repeatedly over decades, but the only thing that confirms or debunks a claim is peer review, and religion is not peer review, because religion is bias and scientific method is neutral, separate from, and independent of any religious labels or god claims.

Muslims and Jews and Buddhist and Hindus, also pull this tactic too.

When the apologist cannot flat out sell "Hey I think this is neat", they resort to attacking science and say, "You don't know everything", then when they cant do that, they resort to, "Science points to my club/holy writing/ deity/s. 

There is absolutely no dispute within the scientific community at that level of those who discovered microwave background radiation that the big bang theory DOES make predictions. That is the very definition of a theory.

Now show me where in your holy book where you see the letter for letter words "Dark matter" or "microwave background radiation" and show me the formulas in that holy writing that back up those words. Hint, "God did it" is not an answer.

I'm not arguing against science.  Please stop making assumptions about anything and everything, especially to things I haven't suggested.

If you want to actually know what I think, just ask, and not tell me what I think already.  Just like the bit about telling me I said there was no Thor or whoever else.   I would be glad to share my thoughts on those kinda things, but what you're asserting usually doesn't jive with what I would've said had you asked.

[Brian37]

And, so, you're saying that unless physicists can weigh electrons on a scale, then, they don't have mass?  Or, their mass cannot be precisely determined?

When something explodes, there's actually quite a bit of order to it.  Even know we see a universe where objects maintain their angular momentum as they expand outward.  For example, I believe it's something like 4 cm the moon moves away from the earth each year, and it's constant.  Angular momentum isn't going to change on its own in a closed system without some other force interfering.  This is a big reason why the CMB field has been a problem.  It's not as smooth as it should be, so to account for all the splits, gaps, pockets, or whatever else, something needs to have created them.  Part was the solution was to hypothesize dark matter to account for it.  Not only that, but asserting about 85 percent of the matter in the universe being such.  But if we can't confirm there is a such thing, then it's not reasonable to suggest it as a cause for anything.  And even if we did find something like it, we would still need to find a whole lot of it to make it work.

I'm not even going to go as far as to say it doesn't, or can't exist, but we need to identify first before suggesting it's causing something to happen.  Just posting a picture of a "small" explosion to illustrate.  You should be able to see in form that it's actually pretty organized as it expands.  There's nice symmetry on both sides as it explodes.

With that, I'll just stop by saying the whole matter is far more complicated, so this wasn't meant to be an end all explanation.

---

Uggg, you cannot complain about criticism of of old mythology, then talk about science. If you are going to argue against science, hate to burst your bubble, but that does not point to your club or God. The only thing attacking a scientific claim can do is debunk that claim, it still would not point to Allah or Buddha or Jesus, or Yahweh or Vishnu.

If a scientific claim is debunked, and the big bang is CONFIRMED and has been repeatedly over decades, but the only thing that confirms or debunks a claim is peer review, and religion is not peer review, because religion is bias and scientific method is neutral, separate from, and independent of any religious labels or god claims.

Muslims and Jews and Buddhist and Hindus, also pull this tactic too.

When the apologist cannot flat out sell "Hey I think this is neat", they resort to attacking science and say, "You don't know everything", then when they cant do that, they resort to, "Science points to my club/holy writing/ deity/s. 

There is absolutely no dispute within the scientific community at that level of those who discovered microwave background radiation that the big bang theory DOES make predictions. That is the very definition of a theory.

Now show me where in your holy book where you see the letter for letter words "Dark matter" or "microwave background radiation" and show me the formulas in that holy writing that back up those words. Hint, "God did it" is not an answer.

I'm not arguing against science.  Please stop making assumptions about anything and everything, especially to things I haven't suggested.

If you want to actually know what I think, just ask, and not tell me what I think already.  Just like the bit about telling me I said there was no Thor or whoever else.   I would be glad to share my thoughts on those kinda things, but what you're asserting usually doesn't jive with what I would've said had you asked.

Still missing my point. I really don't care if you are arguing for or against science. Neither tactic prove your personal pet deity is the default position that is agreed on.

The progression with apologists of EVERY religion goes like this.

Club fan (insert religion here), "I have this really neat club I belong to."

Me, "Ok, so what, you are in the same boat as everyone of any other religion."

Club fan," Yea well, science doesn't know everything."

Me, "Yea sure, but there is lots science does know, and can rule out."

Club fan, "Yea well, I don't reject all science"

Me, "Yea, ok, but only and up until it conflicts with your beliefs, then you cherry pick."

Club fan, "No I don't"

Me, "Fine, spend some time debating people of all the world's religions. Then get back to me when you all come to a consensus."

Now, before you respond, keep in mind I have been at this since 2001, and have taken on Christians, and Muslims, Buddhists, and Jews and Hindus, and even Rastas a couple of times.

[T0 Th3 M4X]

When something explodes, there's actually quite a bit of order to it.  Even know we see a universe where objects maintain their angular momentum as they expand outward.  For example, I believe it's something like 4 cm the moon moves away from the earth each year, and it's constant.  Angular momentum isn't going to change on its own in a closed system without some other force interfering.  This is a big reason why the CMB field has been a problem.  It's not as smooth as it should be, so to account for all the splits, gaps, pockets, or whatever else, something needs to have created them.  Part was the solution was to hypothesize dark matter to account for it.  Not only that, but asserting about 85 percent of the matter in the universe being such.  But if we can't confirm there is a such thing, then it's not reasonable to suggest it as a cause for anything.  And even if we did find something like it, we would still need to find a whole lot of it to make it work.

I'm not even going to go as far as to say it doesn't, or can't exist, but we need to identify first before suggesting it's causing something to happen.  Just posting a picture of a "small" explosion to illustrate.  You should be able to see in form that it's actually pretty organized as it expands.  There's nice symmetry on both sides as it explodes.

With that, I'll just stop by saying the whole matter is far more complicated, so this wasn't meant to be an end all explanation.

---

I'm not arguing against science.  Please stop making assumptions about anything and everything, especially to things I haven't suggested.

If you want to actually know what I think, just ask, and not tell me what I think already.  Just like the bit about telling me I said there was no Thor or whoever else.   I would be glad to share my thoughts on those kinda things, but what you're asserting usually doesn't jive with what I would've said had you asked.

Still missing my point. I really don't care if you are arguing for or against science. Neither tactic prove your personal pet deity is the default position that is agreed on.

The progression with apologists of EVERY religion goes like this.

Club fan (insert religion here), "I have this really neat club I belong to."

Me, "Ok, so what, you are in the same boat as everyone of any other religion."

Club fan," Yea well, science doesn't know everything."

Me, "Yea sure, but there is lots science does know, and can rule out."

Club fan, "Yea well, I don't reject all science"

Me, "Yea, ok, but only and up until it conflicts with your beliefs, then you cherry pick."

Club fan, "No I don't"

Me, "Fine, spend some time debating people of all the world's religions. Then get back to me when you all come to a consensus."

Now, before you respond, keep in mind I have been at this since 2001, and have taken on Christians, and Muslims, and Jews and Hindus, and even Rastas a couple of times.

Sounds like you're trapped in your own little world where you are the brightest star.  If you don't want to be scientific, then please don't waste my time trying to tell me about science.

"Look at me, look at me, I've taken on religious people since 2001 and must be given a consensus to proceed logically."

[Jehanne]

Still missing my point. I really don't care if you are arguing for or against science. Neither tactic prove your personal pet deity is the default position that is agreed on.

The progression with apologists of EVERY religion goes like this.

Club fan (insert religion here), "I have this really neat club I belong to."

Me, "Ok, so what, you are in the same boat as everyone of any other religion."

Club fan," Yea well, science doesn't know everything."

Me, "Yea sure, but there is lots science does know, and can rule out."

Club fan, "Yea well, I don't reject all science"

Me, "Yea, ok, but only and up until it conflicts with your beliefs, then you cherry pick."

Club fan, "No I don't"

Me, "Fine, spend some time debating people of all the world's religions. Then get back to me when you all come to a consensus."

Now, before you respond, keep in mind I have been at this since 2001, and have taken on Christians, and Muslims, and Jews and Hindus, and even Rastas a couple of times.

Sounds like you're trapped in your own little world where you are the brightest star.  If you don't want to be scientific, then please don't waste my time trying to tell me about science.

"Look at me, look at me, I've taken on religious people since 2001 and must be given a consensus to proceed logically."

Around 3,000 cosmologists in the World today are actively publishing articles (typically, 2 to 3 per year) in professional, peer-reviewed scientific journals.  Can you name anyone, a single physicist, who supports your ideas?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

Sounds like you're trapped in your own little world where you are the brightest star.  If you don't want to be scientific, then please don't waste my time trying to tell me about science.

"Look at me, look at me, I've taken on religious people since 2001 and must be given a consensus to proceed logically."

Around 3,000 cosmologists in the World today are actively publishing articles (typically, 2 to 3 per year) in professional, peer-reviewed scientific journals.  Can you name anyone, a single physicist, who supports your ideas?

Not to detract, because I'm happy to respond here soon, but didn't we have this conversation already?  It might not have been you, but someone and I showed them one, then they implied they didn't count.

Also, what idea would you like to look at specifically? Siince we are discussing multiple issues and it would be easier to simplify it rather than try to tackle multiple items at once.  Thanks.

[Scientia]

@Drich

never the less judgement and eyewitness testimony is the glue that binds THIS society together. without it there is no justice there is no peace there is no society. So why then pretend that taking the word of an eye witness is some how a marginal form of evidence? when the literal F-ing world works this way!

I don't know why you keep bringing in society. We are talking about science, something neutral regulated by neutral formulas and equations, and you want to compare it with some man-made compromise/truce of sort. Moreover not the entire world works on society , just to say, while math, physics and chemistry are the same in every corner for the universe. It's apples and oranges.

why does this need be a perfect system? when all that needs to be generated is a faith that of a mustard seed to inspire one to truly seek out God on his terms? It's not that you are ment to find christ on my experience? you are meant to seek out God and forge your own experience with God, whether it be an angel dream vision so real the memory plays back with smells and taste, or maybe The Spirit himself will sit you down and explain as if you were retarded. God know what you need, and will over time give you everything you need to establish and maintain your own relationship. Just gotta seek him on his terms and not your own. That's all my account is suppoed to do for you. is to get you to look for God where he says look for him. Then hold on to something because everything will change.

It needs to be perfect, because otherwise it's flawed. Also again, you are being unclear about what the "mustard seed" exactly means.

no. Some areas of science can be exploited as we understand basic principles we can predict through the very method God will never be found for if he is then would not be God. There is much in science that over time is proven wrong even if everyday from now till then we think is right. again until jan 2018 there was a literal hole in the ozone. not a thin layer a physical hole was said to be there that sealed itself in 97 (My industry was greatly effected by this and alot of changes where made and as a result we all were made to follow said progress, till a whistle blower blew the bottom out of this whole thing. now almost 30 years later the truth is coming out and you noobs have no idea how much the science had changed to fit the money grab that took place between 1985 ans 1993 from which I have a federal issued card in my wallet that says I have bee tested and understand all the ins and outs of the Montreal protocol and the reasoning behind it! which is the polar oppsite of what is being said now.

My point is the faith one has to have in ever changing science is infact Greater than what is needed for God Himself to take your life and give you everything YOU personally need to start and maintain a relationship.

Global cooling and the mini ice age by 2000 was another example. 

Then in 98/99 global warming then in 2010 global climate change so no matter what happens the sky is falling!

Never hear of a case being over turned?
The same happenes either way sport you are missing the whole point.

The evidence is not in my experience my experience is to show you it is possible to get your own experience with God collecting the evidence he direct to you specifically.

It seems as if you missed or straight out ignored a piece of my post and no, I'm not discounting you anything. I had already written the answer to this and I'll post it again:
Scientific results are subjected to the best peer review but, even when wholly accepted by the scientific community, it can happen that a mistake was made along the way and no one noticed. However, eventually that mistake gets out in the open because math, physics and chemistry do not have time. It will happen that theories once deemed correct are revisited, reshaped, modified and corrected once new and more reliable information comes in. That's how it works and it works. It's an attempt to understand how this world works and it functions.


Now let's switch to the justice system. If you find out that the culprit of a crime commited in the 800's was X and not Y, how do you correct it? You can't and that is why this system is flawed. Do we have better alternatives at the present moment? I don't, you don't (I assume) and so we compromise. 

Science is an understanding of the current world that is continuously evolving and adapting as new information completes the picture. The acceptance of scientific results as a consequence of peer review does not constitute a truth per se until it is proven again and again that it works. It's just a first step in the supposedly right direction, a temporary truth. If the scientific community accepts something as truth, but that something doesn't work in the end, then it stops being accepted as truth, it is revised and fixed. 
 

two things honestly you don't know what you will need till he gives it to you.. Maybe you need stage 4 butt cancer with nothing doctors can do at this point but make you comfortable then wake up the next day without a trace. or maybe you need to be in a plane crash where 200 people die and you are the only one who lives. Or maybe you need to spend a night in literal hell. (I do not recommend that one) Or maybe you need to win the lottery.. My suggestion is try and open your mind, and not demand God try and fit in this little crappy box you designed..

Two what if God did exactly that? what if God turned a measure (Say a 1 ft squared @ 14.7psig/sea level air) of oxygen and nitrogen into gold.. would you be able to see
those atoms to verify? Got to remember there is going to be a hella mass differential between air and gold. meaning you would probably have to pull all the atoms air out of 10 square miles and condense them down to a tiny nugget.. unless he left you in, and allowed the vacuum stand there by killing everything/having them implode. how would you know someone did not just slight of hand make a nugget appear? I could literally make what you want to see happen, and I am not god.

Again seek him on his terms allow him to work in your life, he more than you knows what you need.

but again bI can produce the net effect as you on your person do not have the ability to verify what you are asking.

So much misinformation. Here, I prepared an antidote to your ignorance:
1) What you would commonly call "a miracle", as in suddenly being cured of severe illness or surviving a plane crash are again statistics. The survivors in a plane crash are not the "blessed" ones, they are the outliers in a guass bell curve. There is no evidence at all of it being the act of God. It is what YOU believe it to be. You seem to focus too much on the one who survived, ignoring the 199 who died. That is cherry picking.
2) A mol of air is about 25L at room temperature and corresponds to circa 29g. Taking out of the picture energy release from the new bonding/unbonding, 25L of air will produce circa 29g of gold. For the record, 25L is about 1/3 of your volume. If God locally created a vacuum to remove those 25L, the nearby air would instantly be pulled back in to re-equilibrate the system. 10 square miles of air? You'd create a city of gold. You don't even know what you are talking about. Secondly, he can perform this trick in our institute, where we have the machines to reveal the emissions of electromagnetic waves or to inspect a material crystalline nature. If you want I can lay down a precise plan on how to test mr God powers, but that wouldn't satisfy you either because we have to look for God on "his terms". 

Again this is an example of God on your terms. The God of the bible demand you seek him on his terms, he will not meet you on yours. Otherwise he would be the God of your creation and not the God of creation meaning he is the first and last word on how things will be done.

Back to square 1. Invisible, intangible and silent individual demanding I seek him. The nothingness calling out for me without actually calling.

It happened for me. but again I am not you. If you demand God xyz I can promise even if he xyz for me you will be left in silence. As this is not how he said approach him. Again if There was a protocol to meet the queen or obama do you think you would have a chance to meet them on your terms bypassing all the things they need you to do to qualify to meet them? Why then would a being infinatly more powerful be then expected to do parlor tricks for you bypassing what he has demanded from us?

And again you compare God to Obama and the queen lol. Are you wasting my time on purpose or something? I've already addressed this: Obama and the queen are REAL. They are THERE, you can TOUCH them, you can SEE them, be it live or on tv, you can watch videos of them, you can HEAR them, you could even feel their WARMTH if you got to shake hands at some public encounter and, even tho it's not to my taste, you could TASTE them (ugh). And if you were that determined to ascertain their existence, you could make a blitz, tackle on the guards and risk jail to interact with them personally. They may ignore you, just like the president of our institute ignores us, but we know he's there, he's visited sometimes, I've heard it at a conference, he exists. Can you see the MOST IMPORTANT difference? All these individuals, they EXIST. They are FACTUAL, REAL. I hope you didn't miss the point this time.

you think too highly of yourself/ too proud. God is not like you even if he can or decided to use every day things to accomplish his will. what makes God different what makes God god and not like you? the ability to put his will his power into the world and it become everyday.

The ability to put his will and power in the world everyday. Can you provide factual evidence to this?

again you miss the point to champion science. What I said is the criminal justice system using eyewitness testimony more times than not gets it right, using eyewitness testimony as a legit source of proof and evidence, even if science fails more times than not refusing to except the same measure of proof.

And again you compare apples to oranges. Why are you so fixated with the justice system, which is an imperfect set of rules that changes depending on the state you are in, and which is based on something that is just the least evil because otherwise you'd compromise the freedom of everyone? They are DIFFERENT. And then you go on about how the justice system guesses right most of the time while science is often wrong? WhaT? My eyes are bleeding. If God exists and I have indeed to repent for my sins, they you have to repent as well for the titanic amounts of bullshit you are vomiting.

Are you 10? or do you think I am still a retard to chase you down this broken line of reasoning?? Enstein Energy to mass equation does not apply sport. I gave an answer that has nothing to do with multiplying anything twice the speed of light which didn't Einstein himself say was not possible?

WHAT? For crying out loud, Einstein energy to mass equation does not apply? Einstein himself says it's not possible? Then that nuclear plant over there must have been running on black magic for years. Dude, what the actual fuck are you saying, are you for real? You either skipped the past 3 centuries of technological advances or I don't really know anymore. Here please, take this antidote, it will cure the illness called ignorance that is defiling your body and soul:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80...quivalence
https://www.nuclear-power.net/nuclear-po...2-meaning/
http://nstacommunities.org/blog/2016/12/...nd-fusion/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014...y-alok-jha
http://www.emc2-explained.info/Emc2/Fiss...DkLvFVKiUk
https://www.quora.com/How-is-e-mc2-appli...ower-plant

After you purify yourself, go back and read what you said: a mustard seed. You measured faith with "a mustard of seed". I asked you "what do you mean by that? Are you measuring faith in terms of the mass of the seed or in terms of energy associated to that seed?"
Reflect on what you said. What the fuck kind of unit of measure is "a mustard seed"? Is that how you measure faith? Can faith be measured at all? Can you weigh it? Either stop speaking in riddles or reap what you sow.

ok let use your gambling example. you say it is possible to roll a six one time out of 100.. I have been rolling 6s for the last 25 years. again I from the beginning have said if this where a one or two time thing.. it is possible it is just a matter of luck, but again 20+++ years of this is no longer luck. You can not luck your way into a patent, you can not luck you way into a company that does national sales and sustain all of this.. How is it not God after so long?

This statement alone speaks volumes, but let's go in order:
1) Are you sure that all you've been getting are 6s? Was your wife's addiction a 6 too? Are you sure you aren't just overlooking the avalanche of 1s and 2s and just focusing on the 6s? You yourself said that your life was full of hardships even after you got your "promises" fulfilled, and that you still have to endure something from time to time. Aren't you just perceiving it that way?
2) And for the record, yes, it is possible to score 100 times out of 100 a 6. There is no restriction saying that it is impossible. The outliers of a bell curve are rarer but they exist. I think you are just mistaking probability and odds with divine intervention, associating your "luck" to it and convincing yourself "it must be it, it can't be I'm this lucky". From your point of view then Dan Bilzerian must be an archangel.

tell that to my dad my uncle my cousins and even one of my sisters. want and hard work mean shite.

Since it seems you missed my point, I'll put in bold the keyword

Also in life, if you want something badly, you'll do everything to get that something and eventually you get it. That's how you get stuff done in real life. If I want to go somewhere, I'll stress my boss until she's convinced to send me there. If I want to publish a paper in a renown journal, I'll accept all the crap suggestions the editor requires of me until I publish it. If you want to get a job so bad, you'll find it. I obtained pretty much everything I reasonably wanted in life, and it wasn't because of miracles or because some entity helped me. I insisted and insisted and the circumstances were favourable enough until it statistically became a thing. With each attempt I just pushed the odds. That's called determination, perseverance and well, "luck". In all of this I never asked god anything. I did it on my own and I was lucky enough.

 And I would simply find a employee happy working where they are at.

"Go somewhere" meant as "pay me the travel expenses to go in this place for this conference or for this collaboration", not to change my workplace lol. My job can involve a lot of travelling and I like travelling, so I often take the chance to.

then why not have him simply write the paper and use your name? if someone is allowed to take your core idea and change it, then it is not yours. If an edditor wants a book paper writen on a certain subject then let him right it.

Lol, from your reply I understand you don't know how it works. When you submit your paper to a journal, it goes under peer review and even after it has passed the review, the editor will still make comments, mostly about the "appearance" of your work. Some editors are particularly annoying and nagging and make pointless or timewasting remarks such as "scale down this picture" or "put grids everywhere even if messy" or "cite recent works of my journal too". Not any of these comments magically turn into "let me rewrite your paper". You seem to have a really warped view of the scientific community.

you may find something but simply wanting a job does not give you the job you want! I have worked a lot of crappy jobs, and I work each and every sigle one of them with all that i has and for the most part my efforts meant nothing. I was often there to fill a role till that role was no longer needed to be filled.

Obviously. Wanting meant as "doing all the things needed to increase the odds to get that something". Afterall, will in itself is nothing if it's not backed up by power, power meant as physically making things happen.

There is a feeling of being outside but the 'fire itself refer to the tar like blackness that consumes or tears at your being. it is the destruction form and the emotional response it brings. Fire consumes the physical while hell fire destroys or burns any part of creation which i guess includes love as I remember think it could feel my sanity going as well.

I guess it's something you can't understand until you "feel" it, I suppose, as from your description I can't really grasp what it'd mean. I've gone as far as depriving and desensetizing myself from emotions and feelings, down the road of apathy and anhedonia and all in all, it wasn't too bad.

he knows more than I do, which is not saying much but at the same time there is nothing I've asked that I do not get an answer for.

You reminded me of how I used to see teachers. When I was a kid I asked them questions and they would always provide me with answers. I created this warped idea that teachers and professors knew everything of their subjects and were like grandmasters. As I grew and started learning the same things as them and even surpassing them to the point the student/teacher position had reversed, I realized just how everyone knows so little. You could say I saw teachers as gods, but my idea was warped. They didn't know anything, I just knew too little.

Third embodiment of God. God is a title and not a name. As in God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the third deity in the God head. The Spirit has been tasked as our personal connection with the Father.

This was discussed in another thread  (Yes, I lurk the forums a lot even though I'm mainly posting in here) and I want to clarify a thing: are the holy spirit, God and Christ 3 separate, distinct entities? As in, there is nothing actually uniting them?

thess 5:21 tells us to question everything and to hold on to what is good. this does not mean question only the questionable but to also question the foundational.

What do you mean to "hold on what is good"? What is good? And questioning the foundational, does it mean to question the very existence, that is this perceived physical reality (eg, maybe we are brains in a bathtub kind of thing a la matrix?)

 just.. IDK God.

But he didn't identify himself, so how do I know it's him? The nothingness called out for me without calling me out.

again do this with anyone in authority and see if they will show up for you, nor would you expect them too.. yet a being who's power and authority exceed anyone you can think of in authority you expect to come and bow before your demands?!?! Honestly if you demanded that I do anything for you I'd tell you to buzz off. However given the right circumstance I might be inclined to help you anyway I could.

And again, for the n'th time:
Obama and the queen are REAL. They are THERE, you can TOUCH them, you can SEE them, be it live or on tv, you can watch videos of them, you can HEAR them, you could even feel their WARMTH if you got to shake hands at some public encounter and, even tho it's not to my taste, you could TASTE them (ugh). And if you were that determined to ascertain their existence, you could make a blitz, tackle on the guards and risk jail to interact with them personally. They may ignore you, just like the president of our institute ignores us, but we know he's there, he's visited sometimes, I've heard it at a conference, he exists. Can you see the MOST IMPORTANT difference? All these individuals, they EXIST. They are FACTUAL, REAL. I hope you didn't miss the point this time.

su·pe·ri·or
/səˈpirēər/Submit
adjective
1.
higher in rank, status, or quality.
"a superior officer"
synonyms: higher-ranking, higher-level, senior, higher, higher-up, upper-level, upper, loftier

God created man, the creator is superior to the creation.

God is infinite in power and knowledge we are very finite.

God has the authority/power over life and death, man does not.

God offers man eternal life and love through forgiveness of sin. some men can even be bother to accept this atonement.

In this world in this realm might makes right. (like it or not) there is no a single consolidation of might and power than the alpha and omega.

No evidence for creation.
No evidence for his power or knowledge.
No evidence about his authority about anything.
No evidence about eternal life either.

They are all phrases taken out from a book and spelled out like they were truth. Then I will go on and say that 
1) Thousands of years ago, the Dark Lord Sauron had forged the One Ring to rule the other Rings of Power and corrupt those who wore them: nine for leaders of Men, three for Elves, and seven for . 
2) The hobbit Frodo Baggins inherits the Ring from Bilbo Baggins, but Gandalf reports that Saruman has betrayed them and is now working to become a power in his own right. The Council decides that the Ring must be destroyed by sending it to the Fire of  in Mordor, where it was forged. Frodo takes this task upon himself. 
3) Elrond, with the advice of Gandalf, chooses companions for him. The Company of the Ring are nine in number: Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Gandalf, Gimli the Dwarf, Legolas the Elf, and the Man Boromir, son of Denethor, the Ruling Stewardof the land of .
4) Orcs sent by Saruman and Sauron kill Boromir. Gandalf convinces Treebeard to send an army of  to Théoden's aid. Gandalf brings an army of Rohirrim to Helm's Deep, and they defeat the Orcs,
5) Sauron sends a great army against Gondor. Gandalf arrives at Minas Tirith to warn Denethor of the attack, while Théoden musters the Rohirrim to ride to Gondor's aid. Minas Tirith is . Denethor is deceived by Sauron and falls into despair. He burns himself alive on a pyre
6) Aragorn leads an army of men from Gondor and Rohan to march on the Black Gate to distract Sauron from his true danger. His army is vastly outnumbered by the great might of Sauron
7) Frodo reaches the edge of the Cracks of Doom and Ring is destroyed, Sauron loses his power forever. All he created collapses, the Nazgûl perish.

Not what I said.. I said the more you are aware the cost of everything becomes more appearant. for wisdom for example. in order to gain wisdom God does not dispatch a angel to sprinkle magic angel flakes on your head and you wake up in the morning wise. Rather God send trial and hardship your way Say being married 7 to 8 year with an active herion addict makes you street and drug wise to where you can tell by the way someone approaches you whether or not they are trying to scam you...

After enduring such trials you learn it is better to seek contentment with God rather than try and tell God what you want.. you want money?!?! here' 10,000 hours of billiable labor you can do. You want God to turn gold out of the air? then what will you breathe? as it is again not a 1:1 exchange ratio. there is always a cost. When I pray I get what I want but always know something is also owed. I'd simply rather not owe for things that really don't make life better. If I am to work I would rather work at things like family wife kids ect.

So life experience is actually a trial of God, I see. Completely not flawed reasoning.
Also please, stop mentioning the gold thing, it just depresses me how you are trampling over chemistry.

glob.. what I am saying is if idk you have an urge to read the bible then until you read the bible that is far as you will go. if it means ask me 1000 questions then that means those questions need to be written out.. Or if you feel you need to stop doing meth and watching donkey porn then stop doing meth and watchin donkey porn. Kind do what God puts on your heart/things you know to be right.

So doing what I want to do in that moment is not my thought but some idea that God put in me? 

frankly it isn't for everyone honestly I would like to see all the self proclaimed nihilist and neutralist before the pit and have them choose then! Then we see what they have to say.. In truth conscious life is good simply because we are self directed member of creation. better to go where you want and do what you want than to be destroyed by hell fire.
because that is this point is the only option.
Eternal life or destruction by hell fire.

And I would like to see said pit.

but again without math without algebra without formal training of any sort. and again all instantaneously I was drawing as they where describing the problem. I was finished before they were done describing what they needed and what they tried. This was truly for me an out of the blue deal.

I gotta ask: how did you end up in whatever position you ended up that lets you draw circuits and makes your coworkers believe you as if you were chief engineer? It just sounds too surreal when you narrate this story, it's like some crucial information is being left out. I can't imagine some illiterate random coming to our institute and telling us how to change the parameters of our process to achieve better yields, and I can't imagine us taking his word for good and following his orders.

this was for me you will need this then this then that draw this draw that then that like 20 different componets then picked up a blue pe and draew all of the 12 vdc connections. then red for 24 vdc then gree for 48vdc then orange for 230 3p 60 hz. no thouht no guessing just draw the pics I was being shown and connect the dots.

ask anyone here that's me! As I said idiot savant or God.. 

but you also have to consider the whole business side again operating well beyond my scope, and spiritual incite. 

maybe.. and maybe 20 years lucky with the business as well.

Here's a line of thought.. intuitive or not idk.. but look at how you are trying to isolate and address each specific God intervened story I provide you with as a single one off event or something like the intuitive thinker thing.. but will not consider everything at once. Again if I had one story to tell it would be one thing but my whole life changed. we haven't even talked about all the health issues I have been spared from.

Not considering everything at once is exactly what YOU ARE NOT doing. Before you even said that you've been scoring 6s for the past 20y, when you actually told me of all the "trials" you were put in front of. You are either cherrypicking or flat out ignoring all the 1s and 2s and only want to see the 6s. I've already said before, your life just looks like a life: worse than some, better than others. Nothing special.

Just because we can identify addiction and how it works in the brain does not mean there is not a demon responsible for it. and the reason I say this is because when working with my wife I worked with hundreds of people all distinct personalities until they were under the influence of addiction and at that point they all share key common personality traits it was like they all became related or shared the same family or core values somehow. they all had the same stories they all shared the same lies they all stole from the same people. it's like they all gave control of their lives to the same intellect. Yes we can accurately predict and map addiction and chemically explain why and ever physiologically explain why, but again out labels do not exclude Spiritual influence.

And you have to understand that it does not mean there is a demon either. And as long as you don't prove with facts the existence of said demon, it remains a speculation, a thought that is not backed up by evidence. Again, it's your duty to demonstrate it exists, not our duty to demonstrate it doesn't. Because otherwise I could say that it's Sauron behind everything and you can't disprove it. Same reasoning.

the same can be said about the 'science of orgins' paleontology deep space astronomy and the whole host of theoretical works that can not be practically utilized. 

I think you confused astronomy with astrology

So everything that ever was and will be in the universe was compressed into a basket ball size sphere? why cube why not polyhedron why not a 2 dimensional mass why not a bowling ball or better yet a massive super planet? and then what happened? just bang no reason/was too compressed to the oppsite happens. and everything appears. bother that is a god did it or the universe did it or the universe works in mysterious ways If I ever heard one!!! Meaning there is no difference in faith in saying big bang or god did it! how can you say one is better both are faith statements bruh!

I've already written a big paragraph and provided enough sources to scientific papers and ways to access locked up stuff, but you people seem to believe that scientists are some kind of black magic cult that "believes" in things like you do. The fact that you bring the term faith together with science says it all. For you the big bang theory is some fantasy story like your god, no wonder...

and again if an important person in this world will not meet you on your own terms then why expect God to meet you on your terms.. who are you to demand God perform tricks for you?

And again, said person exists while there is no evidence for the existence of God. Not a small difference you can so easily overlook, eh. You know, there is a difference between something that is "there" and something that is "not", even though this concept seems to elude you. You brush this particular aside as if it wasn't relevant lol.

If I received a mail by some self-proclaimed president of some country, I'd think it's just spam and ignore it. If it's indeed false, a scam, nothing happens. If it was true, then I'd have the FBI and CIA breaking in my office and taking me by force with a chopper to mr President. So far I didn't receive any mail or message from self proclaimed gods, neither was I taken by force to meet said God. Can you better see now why your comparisons make no sense?

Glob take GC out of the equasion and plug in huggy CL or me. The point is NOT WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH!!!! BUT THE MESSAGE Read what I wrote again. If literal angel of God made himself know to you and had nothing to say to you he would literally be less of an angel if one of us brought you a message that cut you to your quick.

trying to get you to look outside the box in how the Holy Spirit sends messages to you.

You keep repeating this sentence and I still don't get what it means. The message contained in that blabber post was nonsense.

there is an initial panic of disolving into hell, then the oh, my God this panic is going to be forever... Then but I know I belong here because I do not fit in with he love in Heaven then it was I know I belong here but would I have done anything different if I had known the truth? Could I have been apart of that love, that was going to be the thing that ate my sanity.. I know I belong but did I need to be here was I truly evil? That part I did not know and that part is why I answer questions so that you know.. again the hell fire was sheer removal from clam rational thought an instant conversion to primal guttural responses that gave way to fore your mind to the forefront to try and think through this just to be crushed by the idea of infinity. once your sanity is gone then it really doesn't matter what happens to the rest of you as what makes you you is consumed by the fire. I think however this process of being consumed by the fire takes longer the more wicked you are.

I delved in psychology forums for a good amount of time to at least know the basic stuff. The anxious patterns you described here resonate a whole lot with panic attack racing thoughts. Just some food for thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_thoughts

So you would not work for anyone who did not serve your need to be the authority? maybe you could open up a coffee shop.

If they don't pay me or force me, then I don't serve anyone in general. Let alone serve the nothingness that demands I follow it lol.

Its a simple pattern. Find a hungry scientist 'fund' him to find whatever it is you need. They will always find proof, make people aware documentry or movie or even social media now, 'lobby' politicians/Pay them to make a stink change policy reap billions because of market shift.

repeat.

Here's the thing with "higher learning' Most people here on this web site will only accept information if it comes filter through certain sources we in school been trained to recognise that is why the 2016 campaign keep blaming hillary's non land slide victory to uneducated people. because all the indoctrinated pro clinton material was being provided by these accepted sources and she still lost. meaning dumb people were not smart enough to blindly believe everything we were being told. This structure of transmitting and receiving 'public knowledge' is ingrained into us by 'higher learning' facilities. Facilities that demand we think the same way that we reason the same way that demand we share common morality and values, and yes demand we hate anything not up to our standards. That is why anything with the 'science' frame work around it is believed as absolute truth. I was on board in 85 to 93, but then I saw what it was about. they took a product off the market that sold for .50 a pound and at the end of the production run because this country desperately needed a refrigerant that the one company who sponsored the global initiative who found the hole in the OZone who sold the old stuff and produced the new, was able to sell a .50 12 oz can for 300.00 then sell the new stuff for 150.00

Now FF 20 year and the patents have now run out on the new stuff that sell for 6.00 a 12 oz can just like the patents on the old stuff ran out in 93. Now the new stuff has been found to dramatically increases the global warming effect and must now also be bann so we can not pay 400 to 600 dollars for a 12 oz can of refrigerant.

Duponte scientist said it it must be true.. 

Did you watch the movie the fox catcher? it was about how f-ing crazy the CEO of duponte was in the 1980's but also how smart and the fact he had so much money he literally owned everythig around him. This is his scam played out by governments now.

As I said, I think you have to be "in it" to be able to properly filter the truth, and this is why I took on chemistry/physics/math classes. But even though scientific phenomenons are speculated upon by governments, it doesn't mean they are not true. Lead gasoline was banished because it was economically not convenient, but it's also true it was poisonous. Global warming was stressed upon a lot, somewhat exaggeratedly, but it's still true, it's been that way since forever. 

Even if the powerups use science to their convenience, the data produced are still there. What the gov does is attach "meanings" to it, but the scientific data are neutral. You are able to fly by planes thanks to science, you are able to communicate instantly with someone on the other side of the planet thanks to science, you can cool down your food with a refrigerator thanks to science. It works. Then if society wants you to believe that microwaves can kill you and other shit like then it's another issue. But science is not religion. You don't need to believe in it to receive God. Planes will fly even if you don't believe that g = 9.81 m/s2. If you throw salted water on a laptop you'll short circuit it even if you don't believe in salt. Science doesn't care about what you believe, it works independently and if your beliefs are misplaced (which includes wrong theories that are modified at a later time), you'll eventually realize this on your own and correct them.

Give a monkey a gun and if he shoots someone it is not the monkey's fault. In turn give a crack head a million dollars and he OD's in a week you indeed killed him. Someone like that has no internal control anymore the demon of addiction has taken control, and it will make them use till the money or their breath runs out.

So now you compare monkeys to humans. But didn't you say before that only the most recent humans (6k years ago) are the "blessed ones" and that anything that came before, including humanoids and monkeys, don't have a soul and aren't comparable to the actual humans? I don't forget the stuff you say. Also who are you to decide who has control and who hasn't? If his willpower is strong enough and you want to put him through one of your godly trials, then it's fair to give him the same money and see how it evolves. Then again with demons eh...

On the simple side it is praying "Dear lord I know I am a sinner/broken your laws, and I know I will continue to do so for the rest of my life however I ask that you forgive me of my sins again you and my fellow man any way. Then as a start you must live out this example of forgiving those who sin against you. This make take a while if you have an a-hole father as I do, but over time try and forgive those as if it where you who needed forgivness. the rest will come over time. Meaning trying to resist or abstaining from sin will be something you will eventually want to do even if you can't. That is call repentance. where you internally hate sin even if you are still tied to it. Paul explains this in much better detail in romans chapters 6,7 and 8

As someone who doesn't believe in sins and whatever, of course all of this sounds as unnecessary self-imposed limitations and punishment, but I guess that in the scope of this religion it has its place... Perhaps. Thanks for clarifying.

and you tested the god you found and got back total silence. so then you rebuild have that verion of God tested and you rebuild. not every verion will be 100% wrong, so you hold on to what is right and rebuild everything else. I'd say in side a year you could have a good working understanding of Who god is and how he works.

And how do you know what is "right"? Just a hunch?

we are supposed to fail alot. because what we are doing is pealing away the personal I want a god who does... and are left with the God described in scripture. 

So it's indeed bad instructables.

Not free will (that is a late 1200 greek construct/philosophy but to give us choice yes the bible/ God sees us as slaves to him or sin but even slaves had choice. The tree was choice to be in (not the city of heaven but to be in his presence/heaven or to serve a master of sin who promises complete freedom but only dilivers pain and suffering. Imagine that God created Adam and eve right after the earth was formed 100 bazzillion years or go or whatever 'science says now.' and he planted the seeds that would later become the oceans land animals plants birds and even man outside the garden. But inside the garden God created a paradise that would resemble what the world would evolve into about (6000 or so years ago) Why then? because God knew that was when the fall was going to be. Yes he would loose Adam and eve but because he planted those seeds the people from the garden would have a world and better yet a people to bless with souls when their kids and their kids kids had children. To one day populate the world with people with souls. So that the may all experience sin. So when it came time to make the choice Eve made (but in reverse/she was alive with God and died, and we in sin are dead to God but choose to live) we would not be courious about sin and could choose (if we chose God) without question or reservation. We could enter heaven and have our sin curiosity quota filled.

So why do this and why not make a race of people in heaven? He did that already with the angels. and over 1/3 of them fell surcombing to sin. lucifer's temptation being too great. So it is written we will live in a place with God for 1000 years. (all of the saved) then satan will be let loose one more time to temp the saved one more time to give those who changed their minds about serving God an way out. Then he and those who want to go with him will be seal in hell for ever. Again it is and it always is about choosing To be with God.

Adam and Eve were given this choice created to be immortal and living with God potentially for billions if not trillions of years before temptation ate them alive, to the point they died from their imortal lives and was given over to the pain and suffering of life outside the garden. This life for us is about the same choice, and we will get a third chance in the next. In short God wants to ensure those who seek to spend eternity with him want to be there under his rule and grace. because eternity is a long long time.

As someone who makes freedom one of his fundamental values, it just defies my intrinsic nature to accept slavery. If the choice we are put in front is indeed to either be God's eternal slaves or have complete freedom in a temporary world, that I'd chose the latter. I'd consciously choose the latter.

I think you don't get that it was the plan all along for the fall. why else plant man outsie the garden?

[snip]

The universe stretches out forever we have forever... I believe the sons those who work as slaves and are trusted and becomes sons get to go out and each given to his ability.. to one an asteroid maybe to another a planet to develop or maybe to another a whole region of space.. or maybe we are given star ships and told to go explore. The bible does not say much but I know there is a reason for an infinite universe and an infinity amount of time to go and do. If adam and eve lasted billions of years in 2/3 the size of the USA how much more will there be for us to do and accomplish?

What I wonder is why God wants eternal slaves. What for? Once everyone makes it to heaven, what does he need slaves for? It just makes no sense. It's not like he has a war to fight to warrant an army of slaves. Also, if he's so allmighty and powerful as it's claimed, what does he need slaves for? Can't he make everything on his own anyways? What's the point?

Analogy about zombies

I think you re-created the same scenario without even realizing it. There is indeed one particular that you omitted: who created and spread the virus to begin with?

If you include that information, then you have a God who created and spread a virus that infected everyone, and then he offered a cure for it. It's what some nasty pharmacy could do, lol. Spread a illness and then sell the cure.

[Drich]

Gish Gallop:

Wikipedia -- Gish gallop

You're turning into a part-time job, Drich.

here's a thought.. spend time on my answers to your questions. No one demands you need to make a snarky comment on each and every word I type on this website.

[Drich]

I don't know why you keep bringing in society. We are talking about science, something neutral regulated by neutral formulas and equations, and you want to compare it with some man-made compromise/truce of sort. Moreover not the entire world works on society , just to say, while math, physics and chemistry are the same in every corner for the universe. It's apples and oranges.

Because as I pointed out the first time God is not a science experiment and will never be found there. God by definition is not apart of the tangible world which science is limited to. So then we must look for other equally viable forms of evidence. This comes in certified testimony. which more closely resembles the stated purpose of Christians offering their own testimony, in that they share how God has worked in their life and offer the same if not more to the non believer.
Science is a single tool in our tool box of life it is like a hammer, yes hammers can be used for a great number of things but is not the tool of choice in every situation, there are even times when hammers are the wrong/counterproductive tool.

It needs to be perfect, because otherwise it's flawed. Also again, you are being unclear about what the "mustard seed" exactly means.

That's crap.. I've said over and over all you need is the honesty to openly read the bible and seek out God. In doing so you will see a set of instructions (there are several sets of directions, but they will not stand out to you till later) simply follow the directions that stand out.

For example you want proof the proof of god is in the Holy Spirit so in reading the bible you will come across a specific set of direction on how to obtain a measure of the Holy Spirit, follow said direction to a T and God literally promises to move heaven and earth to full fill this promise. How many times Have I said this? What do you think Ask Seek Knock is all about? Luke 11 frames the idea here.

Now let's switch to the justice system. If you find out that the culprit of a crime committed in the 800's was X and not Y, how do you correct it? You can't and that is why this system is flawed. Do we have better alternatives at the present moment? I don't, you don't (I assume) and so we compromise. 

never heard of postimus exoneration? It is where reparations are made to the family of one who has been wrongfully imprisoned. 800 years ago we had the dark ages and crusades. so then the power and morality of the church made people in the holy land out to be child eating demons and women witches. So then how did we correct this 800 years later? we refer to the time where the church rule the planet the dark ages because of the corruption and thing like the crusades and witch trials. or did you thin people living in the dark ages thought they were living in the dark ages? no they thought they were living in post modern times.

two things honestly you don't know what you will need till he gives it to you.. Maybe you need stage 4 butt cancer with nothing doctors can do at this point but make you comfortable then wake up the next day without a trace. or maybe you need to be in a plane crash where 200 people die and you are the only one who lives. Or maybe you need to spend a night in literal hell. (I do not recommend that one) Or maybe you need to win the lottery.. My suggestion is try and open your mind, and not demand God try and fit in this little crappy box you designed..

Two what if God did exactly that? what if God turned a measure (Say a 1 ft squared @ 14.7psig/sea level air) of oxygen and nitrogen into gold.. would you be able to see
those atoms to verify? Got to remember there is going to be a hella mass differential between air and gold. meaning you would probably have to pull all the atoms air out of 10 square miles and condense them down to a tiny nugget.. unless he left you in, and allowed the vacuum stand there by killing everything/having them implode. how would you know someone did not just slight of hand make a nugget appear? I could literally make what you want to see happen, and I am not god.

Again seek him on his terms allow him to work in your life, he more than you knows what you need.

but again bI can produce the net effect as you on your person do not have the ability to verify what you are asking.

So much misinformation. Here, I prepared an antidote to your ignorance:
1) What you would commonly call "a miracle", as in suddenly being cured of severe illness or surviving a plane crash are again statistics. The survivors in a plane crash are not the "blessed" ones, they are the outliers in a guass bell curve.   MAybe survive a plane crash or stage 4 cancer then speak.

There is no evidence at all of it being the act of God.

when you follow truth beyond anything anyone can do for you and you are still committed, but at the need help and this truth has you in a place where there is nothing anyone can do, yet you call out to God and God answers.. That is the proof you are looking for even if it is not enough for a peer reviewed journal.

One of the thing that made me search for truth was while in high school my shop teacher ( the man who showed me how to mop like a 20 year veteran) was pull out of class on friday for a heart attack. He went in and they scanned him and it show he needed a triple by pass. His heart doctor scheduled the surgery for the next available OR and He prayed to God " dear lord if you want me to keep preaching and working with the kids at school I'm gonna need a strong heart to do this. He said he could feel the blockage being pulled out and strength return. he felt so good he got out of bed and started to put his cloths back on, they stopped them they argued and he consented to another scan and this time it was completely clear.

Again this happened before I knew anything of God at the time I was full on atheist beating up christians for bringing their bibles to school.. This made me want to know the truth no matter where it lead me.

When you cite something as obscure as a gauss bell curve as reason to doubt, you are truly showing a closed mind. Because you are not willing to accept ANYTHING God has ever done for people as proof of his existence. If and when it is you ( I went though an AIDs scare a Non Hodgkin lymphoma (2 solid years of testing and a blood test every year.) scare and a literal burst appendix (never removed still in me) You don't care where your place is on a Gauss bell curb. again you narrow minded thinking has you look at each individual instance as a stand alone event. but none of us live a 1 event life. You must take the sum total of 25 years of God augmented life and reconcile all of it, not just one event and treat each like a one off. as God works every single day. What if you were privy to 2 to 10 literally miraculous events every day. for 25 years? Would you still look at every event individually and explain each away on their own? or would you be brave enough to take everything into consideration and view it as a whole?

It is what YOU believe it to be. You seem to focus too much on the one who survived, ignoring the 199 who died. That is cherry picking.

Because if I survived my story continues while the rest ends.. seriously don't douche out on me here. why would anyone focus on the luck or post plane crash events of a guy who dies in a plane crash? Look how absurd you reasoning has become in order to fit this stupid bell curb. It is said for those who have a task to full fill for God, they are untouchable. If I survived then My task is simply not complete. Nothing cherry picked you just have the wrong assumption that all are protected in the same way.

2) A mol of air is about 25L at room temperature and corresponds to circa 29g. Taking out of the picture energy release from the new bonding/unbonding, 25L of air will produce circa 29g of gold. For the record, 25L is about 1/3 of your volume. If God locally created a vacuum to remove those 25L, the nearby air would instantly be pulled back in to re-equilibrate the system. 10 square miles of air? You'd create a city of gold. You don't even know what you are talking about. Secondly, he can perform this trick in our institute, where we have the machines to reveal the emissions of electromagnetic waves or to inspect a material crystalline nature. If you want I can lay down a precise plan on how to test mr God powers, but that wouldn't satisfy you either because we have to look for God on "his terms". 

 no.. sorry sport.. here we 'proof our work by providing references and support material we don't pretend to just know otherwise you can be made the fool when someone asks for supporting material or simply provides the material they have that blows you out of the water.

Yes a mol of air is  28.9647 g/mol.

but let say the atomic weight for a single molecule of air is 30.0000u for simple math sake

as the atomic weight of oxy is 15.9999u

https://www.google.com/search?q=mol+mass...e&ie=UTF-8

atomic weight of an atom of nitrogen is: 14.0067 u

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AJZ...UZ4towQyRg

( which also leaves room for argon and the other stuff)

but the atomic weight of gold is a little bit heavier.. little bit because we are dealing with atomic weight, but apples to apples it is a hellva lot heavier.

Au=196.9665690 u
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/molec...d_679.html

can you see that three atoms that roughly make up air (remember we cheated and rounded up to 30) is far lighter than just one ATOM of gold. if fact 30 air molecules of air a needed or 90 atoms of the three primary air components are needed to equate the density of just 1 gold atom. That means in mass there is a 90:1 ratio needed of air to just one unit of gold..

Meaning if you want one ton of gold you have to convert 90 tons of oxy nitrogen and Argon..

Now let put your small box mind that could not understand this simple equation but call me stupid inside your house or building at work when you challenge God to do this. and he says sure let us show this monkey man who and what God is despite what others may have to go through.. and turn air into a ton of gold..

Now..
Riddle me this, does the whole of your house contain enough volume of aire to satifify the 90 to 1 ratio of air needed? Meaning if I pull a hard vacuum on your house (30hg)could i displace 90 tons of the atoms needed for your request???

What if God kept your house sealed and from implosion. because truly as you missed my point before You have no way of making sure air was being converted into gold otherwise.. I in slight of hand could turn air into gold. The only way you could see or know a atomic change was happening is if you were caught up in said vacuum.. Which would ironically (as your last breath was being pulled from your lungs) be the proof you needed lest the whole 'test' be for nothing.

So quick to flash your flare you missed the whole point completely.

Again this is an example of God on your terms. The God of the bible demand you seek him on his terms, he will not meet you on yours. Otherwise he would be the God of your creation and not the God of creation meaning he is the first and last word on how things will be done.

Back to square 1. Invisible, intangible and silent individual demanding I seek him. The nothingness calling out for me without actually calling.

I don't understand the problem you are making here, we as human being do this all the f-ing time in real life. He mr. can you help me find my dog his name is fred... what would be the first thing you did if you agreed? you'd call out into the darkness in earnest looking for a dog for a kid who had nothing but an empty leash.

Why is this a leap? you are not asked to do this publicly. you are not asked to send in money, you are not asked to stop your porn pot and pizza night, all that is required is to seek the truth of God and allow him to provide you with absolutely everything you need to establish and maintain a working relationship.

And again you compare God to Obama and the queen lol. Are you wasting my time on purpose or something? I've already addressed this: Obama and the queen are REAL. They are THERE, you can TOUCH them, you can SEE them, be it live or on tv, you can watch videos of them, you can HEAR them, you could even feel their WARMTH if you got to shake hands at some public encounter and, even tho it's not to my taste, you could TASTE them (ugh). And if you were that determined to ascertain their existence, you could make a blitz, tackle on the guards and risk jail to interact with them personally. They may ignore you, just like the president of our institute ignores us, but we know he's there, he's visited sometimes, I've heard it at a conference, he exists. Can you see the MOST IMPORTANT difference? All these individuals, they EXIST. They are FACTUAL, REAL. I hope you didn't miss the point this time.

maybe you missed before, but have you touched the queen? have you physically stood before obama? you hear of them through first person accounts just like you hear of God you see photos and painting of them. To you mr. nobody the queen and obama are a point of faith/belief not that far off from God. The real difference is that God promises to close that Gap if you seek him out. but again that is his terms not your own. Obama and the queen will never see you, even if you did follow their protocol. Ironically you are closer to seeing God and being able to personally vett him than personally vett people in whom you deem 'real.'

So stop copping out here when the point I make is not about realism but about approaching a person in authority. you have to be smart enough to know this, so why cop out? If the queen will not see you on your terms then why would one greater than the queen in power and authority see you on your terms if the queen will not gift you gold why in hell would God almighty do a magic trick and gift you gold. You are intentionally tainting the well here. if God say abc you demand he 123. You must understand that if God bends to your will he is not God. or is that what you want? a not so scary version of God? something you have final say in? something that can't hurt you if you give in?

you think too highly of yourself/ too proud. God is not like you even if he can or decided to use every day things to accomplish his will. what makes God different what makes God god and not like you? the ability to put his will his power into the world and it become everyday.

The ability to put his will and power in the world everyday. Can you provide factual evidence to this?

yes absolutely I have 25 years of this personal attention, but you want to chop my examples up isolate them and call 25 + years of experience with God 9130+ days (leap days included) as 9130+ days of individual counts of coincidence so none of them count right?

Again what he has given me is offered to you. If you do not think God can be with you and let you know he is there every single day, then call him on his promise by doing what little that is asked.

again you miss the point to champion science. What I said is the criminal justice system using eyewitness testimony more times than not gets it right, using eyewitness testimony as a legit source of proof and evidence, even if science fails more times than not refusing to except the same measure of proof.

And again you compare apples to oranges. Why are you so fixated with the justice system, which is an imperfect set of rules that changes depending on the state you are in, and which is based on something that is just the least evil because otherwise you'd compromise the freedom of everyone? They are DIFFERENT. And then you go on about how the justice system guesses right most of the time while science is often wrong? WhaT? My eyes are bleeding. If God exists and I have indeed to repent for my sins, they you have to repent as well for the titanic amounts of bullshit you are vomiting.

what I have pointed out is God's apples is inline with the criminal justice system and science's orange is constructed in such away to ignore apples in criminal law as well as God himself. So why look for God in a system devoid of apples when that is what you are looking for. The folly here is your in thinking science can or is designed to encapsulate everything. how much science is needed in literature? how much science is needed in the act of love? how much science is needed in criminal justice? the same is true with God. why would any one assume science is needed to identify God? NOTHING in what God has ever said includes this word science. So what dumb ass keeps insisting that science is needed to find God? Why?

Are you 10? or do you think I am still a retard to chase you down this broken line of reasoning?? Enstein Energy to mass equation does not apply sport. I gave an answer that has nothing to do with multiplying anything twice the speed of light which didn't Einstein himself say was not possible?

WHAT? For crying out loud, Einstein energy to mass equation does not apply? Einstein himself says it's not possible? Then that nuclear plant over there must have been running on black magic for years. Dude, what the actual fuck are you saying, are you for real? You either skipped the past 3 centuries of technological advances or I don't really know anymore. Here please, take this antidote, it will cure the illness called ignorance that is defiling your body and soul:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80...quivalence
https://www.nuclear-power.net/nuclear-po...2-meaning/
http://nstacommunities.org/blog/2016/12/...nd-fusion/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014...y-alok-jha
http://www.emc2-explained.info/Emc2/Fiss...DkLvFVKiUk
https://www.quora.com/How-is-e-mc2-appli...ower-plant

After you purify yourself, go back and read what you said: a mustard seed. You measured faith with "a mustard of seed". I asked you "what do you mean by that? Are you measuring faith in terms of the mass of the seed or in terms of energy associated to that seed?"
Reflect on what you said. What the fuck kind of unit of measure is "a mustard seed"? Is that how you measure faith? Can faith be measured at all? Can you weigh it? Either stop speaking in riddles or reap what you sow.

Again... enough faith to Ask Seek and repeat (since knock is such a mysterious word you have to redefine the search parameters to make an insecure man's point (a point with a floursish of knoweledge as to overwhelm with your 'great and powerful oz mind..'... rather that ask a humble question.)
again luke 11 right after the lord prayer A/S/K for the holy Spirit.

This statement alone speaks volumes, but let's go in order:
1) Are you sure that all you've been getting are 6s? Was your wife's addiction a 6 too?

Looking back it is a 6+ I would not want to endure this again but it has bought us a  level of love trust and respect I don't think we would have known otherwise! Out of the 10 couples we got married with 3 others are still married we however are still best friends.

Are you sure you aren't just overlooking the avalanche of 1s and 2s and just focusing on the 6s? You yourself said that your life was full of hardships even after you got your "promises" fulfilled, and that you still have to endure something from time to time. Aren't you just perceiving it that way?

who do you think you are talking to I lived through this mess. a six brother is not always what you want a six simply shows consistency. who wants a six when you bet on 4 who wants a six when you bet odds. A six again is predictible and you know that if you are on board you will always win, however doubt on my part does set in from time to time but
I know if I stick with my 'six' it will workout in the end.

2) And for the record, yes, it is possible to score 100 times out of 100 a 6. There is no restriction saying that it is impossible. The outliers of a bell curve are rarer but they exist. I think you are just mistaking probability and odds with divine intervention, associating your "luck" to it and convincing yourself "it must be it, it can't be I'm this lucky". From your point of view then Dan Bilzerian must be an archangel.

says the guy who loves nobody loves nothing with nothing to live for..  to the guy who loves and is loved by a God to a degree I can not understand.. My question to you is what does your crutch in the law of averages buy you? let's say you right and i was just born at the right place at the right time... so why did my for 20 some odd years suck? is it a karma thing where you first have is hell on earth and the 2nd half is heaven? why did It start when it did? why did it impart knowledge of a religion I never studied why was I given a business of all things when in life I tend to like to follow rather than lead. why this field? I didn't grow up wanting to deal trucks or be in refrigeration?? Just an idiot suvaunt at the right place at the right time i guess huh?  Again sport my life is my needs filled to where i live the proof of God everyday, again maybe your version has you wake up in a vacuum surrounded by Gold.

Since it seems you missed my point, I'll put in bold the keyword

Also in life, if you want something badly, you'll do everything to get that something and eventually you get it. That's how you get stuff done in real life. If I want to go somewhere, I'll stress my boss until she's convinced to send me there. If I want to publish a paper in a renown journal, I'll accept all the crap suggestions the editor requires of me until I publish it. If you want to get a job so bad, you'll find it. I obtained pretty much everything I reasonably wanted in life, and it wasn't because of miracles or because some entity helped me. I insisted and insisted and the circumstances were favourable enough until it statistically became a thing. With each attempt I just pushed the odds. That's called determination, perseverance and well, "luck". In all of this I never asked god anything. I did it on my own and I was lucky enough.

again  got your point first time.. my point is that for most want and what life shite's on you are two completely different things.

Guess life is just that much better with a well earned degree. but again what if a billionare's lifestyle was just dropped in your lap? Again what I am describing to you is simply your level in life. I did not come from here no did I earn it, it was given to me like if someone leveled you up to billionare without deserving or earning it. could you imagine how happy and greatful for being leveled up to billionare status? Same thing here with me I just got to see how and why everything worked the way it did. I got to see God put things together for me He called them out and it happened before me. again what I needed to see for my belief.

"Go somewhere" meant as "pay me the travel expenses to go in this place for this conference or for this collaboration", not to change my workplace lol. My job can involve a lot of travelling and I like travelling, so I often take the chance to.

Even for me durning this whole selling the patent thing I was told to go to nyc for three days long weekend. they put us in a hotel in new jersey and drove into the Bronx every morning then worked to midnight lot of times no lunch dinner was the "continental breakfast items I took and wrapped up. or if we got done before subway closed we'd go there. I think I wound up staying over a week out fitting the first 4 test trucks (was only to be one then the installing dealer was supposed to do the rest.) I was the star of this multi million dollar deal, literal without me this would not have worked period. if these 4 worked as advertised 25 more where to be sold.. and despite the crazy money being thrown about.. I could not demand anything. I think I even had to pay the last few days and my ticket home. Again here is another example in my life where circumstance dictated action despite my personal wants or desire. so 3 turned into 7+ that I had to pay for. oh and not get paid for the time or expenses..

Lol, from your reply I understand you don't know how it works. When you submit your paper to a journal, it goes under peer review and even after it has passed the review, the editor will still make comments, mostly about the "appearance" of your work. Some editors are particularly annoying and nagging and make pointless or time wasting remarks such as "scale down this picture" or "put grids everywhere even if messy" or "cite recent works of my journal too". Not any of these comments magically turn into "let me rewrite your paper". You seem to have a really warped view of the scientific community.

Actually writing a patent is close. it seems to me you are standing up for the wrong things. your intellectual property you let people molest and corn hole, while you demand to stay here  or go there in a given project. that is what you stand up for that is what you will not compromise. Do you know what I was told my first application? (after the 'peer review of 25 closly related inventions?) they said my drawings where too crude. I needed them done via cad. I looked up the rules and it was not stated as such. in fact there are people you can hire to hand draw everything out. I got an art student to redraw and clean up my drawings for 100 bucks, told the guy to pound sand enclosed a print out from the rules in how things can be depicted.. I say that to say going into the review process I was not indoubt of anything I had working models and plenty of time to review my competitors/closely related inventions. They too recommend changes as they understand how things work, but I came in and refuted any changes needed to be made explain how the other guys work/failed and explain what mine did differently... 25 different times in 25 different ways.

I guess it's something you can't understand until you "feel" it, I suppose, as from your description I can't really grasp what it'd mean. I've gone as far as depriving and desensetizing myself from emotions and feelings, down the road of apathy and anhedonia and all in all, it wasn't too bad.

this dream was a pivitol moment in my life as it was about the 1/2 way point life before was one way life after changed. life before was very hard and cruel which lead me to hate God. from that time there was a lot of emotional repression as well wanted to be a spock or data. logic and reason only. Hell fire reminded me I am emotional being. I still see things very clock work ish but still retail emotion.

You reminded me of how I used to see teachers. When I was a kid I asked them questions and they would always provide me with answers. I created this warped idea that teachers and professors knew everything of their subjects and were like grandmasters. As I grew and started learning the same things as them and even surpassing them to the point the student/teacher position had reversed, I realized just how everyone knows so little. You could say I saw teachers as gods, but my idea was warped. They didn't know anything, I just knew too little.

My point being I know little to nothing less God shares it with me. If I am providing you with information you did not know then know it is not me personally sourced it. I simply know how to retrieve information. An old master mechanic once asked me do you know the difference between a master like me and you? I said sure, you know alot more about cars and trucks.. he said no.. I simply know where to go to look things up and can do so alot faster than you can. The same i true here with me. I can access God, I can't pretend I can always get an answer to every question, but I have yet to receive an answer that I have asked. meaning if I understod the question I got an answer. The whole creation evolution thing happened this way.

This was discussed in another thread  (Yes, I lurk the forums a lot even though I'm mainly posting in here) and I want to clarify a thing: are the holy spirit, God and Christ 3 separate, distinct entities? As in, there is nothing actually uniting them?
[quote]
When on earth Jesus was shown to be separate from the Father and the Holy Spirit.. In that Jesus Prayed to the father several times asking for different things, and the Holy Spirit was described descending on Christ after he was baptized. Now in heaven they are united as they are God. as they are the single power or theocracy or government that created creation and is in charge of creation.

[quote]
thess 5:21 tells us to question everything and to hold on to what is good. this does not mean question only the questionable but to also question the foundational.

What do you mean to "hold on what is good"? What is good? And questioning the foundational, does it mean to question the very existence, that is this perceived physical reality (eg, maybe we are brains in a bathtub kind of thing a la matrix?)

Foundational means foundational beliefs you take for granet. Things you don't normally question. For example for you the question should be ask: is science the best form of compiling evidence and data to truly determine whether or not there is a God? Why do I insist when other avenues have yielded positive results.

su·pe·ri·or
/səˈpirēər/Submit
adjective
1.
higher in rank, status, or quality.
"a superior officer"
synonyms: higher-ranking, higher-level, senior, higher, higher-up, upper-level, upper, loftier

God created man, the creator is superior to the creation.

God is infinite in power and knowledge we are very finite.

God has the authority/power over life and death, man does not.

God offers man eternal life and love through forgiveness of sin. some men can even be bother to accept this atonement.

In this world in this realm might makes right. (like it or not) there is no a single consolidation of might and power than the alpha and omega.

No evidence for creation.

creation is evidence for creation.

No evidence for his power or knowledge.

Both his power and knowledge can be found in the same place. you do not have the keys or the sole use of the word evidence. as I have been mopping the floor with you, you ought to know by now your appeal to probablity in scientific 'proof' simply allows you to dress the straw man to look as weak an feeble as you like. In truth evidence abounds through this religion. you simply want to ignore via a technicality.

No evidence about his authority about anything.

this is a stupid closed minded pov. Just in the church there is power to change global law and policy.
Hell the church ruled the planet for almost 1000 years, then on his authority splintered this power so man could not corrupt it again.

No evidence about eternal life either.

Again evidence abounds if one's mind was no so closed.