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RE: What does religion have to offer?
August 3, 2019 at 6:16 pm
(August 3, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Most of the things religion offers are achieved by other things even among the religious.
Mhm for sure. It's always interesting to me when people talk about the contributions the religious have made to society, as if they couldn't have made those contributions otherwise.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: What does religion have to offer?
August 3, 2019 at 9:23 pm
(July 16, 2019 at 5:07 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: Time and time again we have had conversations with religious whack-jobs who come on this forum with some tired, washed up platitudes and tell us, "Checkmate, Atheists! Bet you can't explain this one!" I would say about 99% of the time we easily dismantle their silly arguments; whether or not they choose to admit, or whether they realize, their logic is faulty is another story entirely. But, for the most part, I can safely say that no theist here on this forum has ever thrown a curve ball at me that I either didn't see coming or haven't seen before. The most of you could probably say the same for themselves.
That being said, religion does seem to offer something to billions of people around the world. I have argued, and still believe, that whatever religion offers to people, other systems in life could offer the same, if not better. Through logical thinking and rational discourse, I've come to appreciate my place in this universe as entirely insignificant. While I may have found meaning in my life and people that I care about, our existence here basically means nothing. And that is, undoubtedly, one of the most beautiful things about our time here. It's as if we're a little flower that's sprouted up in an empty garden.
I am hoping here to start a list of what it is that religion provides for people. We can, as atheists, at least speculate about what it is that people draw from being believers, people of faith.
I think that that faith and belief provides:
Comfort in death
A sense of belonging
A sense of purpose
A community
A conduit for shared experiences, of which the psychological benefits are great
A sense of understanding the history of the world, even if that history is completely or mostly inaccurate
A feeling of having someone there when one is completely lonely or hopeless
People also seem to get some benefit from prayer
If anyone thinks this list needs added to or subtracted from, please reply.
Religion offers a wide variety of people, writers thinkers, communities, that relate to far greater lot of us, than any sort of atheism.
There’s no atheist Dostoevsky.
I think of my poor Christian mother for instance, when we are the most intimate, our language is almost always religious, about forgiveness, love, what’s sacred, repentance, sin, failure, wholeness, suffering, joy, hope, grace all in the light of eternity.
Atheist seem to be obsessed with talk of the objective world, about questions of science, and it all appears superficial, while this inner life remains untouched. It’s the slave looking upon the cross, and seeing the lynching tree, secretly meeting at night in fields, filled with elation by a hymn of hope, and freedom. It’s that song that animates life.
“ even if all possible scientific questions be answered, the problems of life have still not been touched at all.”
-
Ludwig Wittgenstein
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RE: What does religion have to offer?
August 3, 2019 at 9:32 pm
(August 3, 2019 at 6:16 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: as if they couldn't have made those contributions otherwise.
Could have, maybe, we think, in a counterfactual time line, in a history that we fantasize.
In the history we have, though, religion has made contributions.
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RE: What does religion have to offer?
August 3, 2019 at 9:41 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2019 at 9:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-and now we’re on to the there’s no atheist -insert author I like- portion of the exercise.
There probably is, read more books. It’s expected that the authors of books religious beliefs will reflect their position in time.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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