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[Serious] What does religion have to offer?
#31
RE: What does religion have to offer?
- and when that doesn’t work, rinse and repeat. It’s not at all different from reciting Buddhist scriptures until a person gets that flash of enlightenment, or leaving offerings to an idol.

Ritual and routine.

They can be small or large, private or public. The psychological benefits of those sorts of behaviors are well researched, but...ofc, not uniformly beneficial. They can become compulsions or obsessions, or other things.

At worst, they become cudgels we use to beat ourselves and others over the head with, or the engine of our own self degradation in feeling that we’ve “done the steps”. That this is somehow some personal failure of our own when we utter the spell and the devil fails to appear.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#32
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 12:32 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: - and when that doesn’t work, rinse and repeat.    It’s not at all different from reciting Buddhist scriptures until a person gets that flash of enlightenment, or leaving offerings to an idol.

Ritual and routine.

They can be small or large, private or public.  The psychological benefits of those sorts of behaviors are well researched, but...ofc, not uniformly beneficial.  They can become compulsions or obsessions, or other things.

At worst, they become cudgels we use to beat ourselves and others over the head with, or the engine of our own self degradation in feeling that we’ve “done the steps”.  That this is somehow some personal failure of our own when we utter the spell and the devil fails to appear.

what does asking cost you?

IE what does post questions here cost you? What major changes of your life has happened in order for you to talk to someone like me?

How much does it cost to follow and read a citation or link I provide that leads to a greater truth or understanding? have you lost you job reading bible passages I post?

How much have you paid tiberius for the ablity to come back day after day and post your doubts and questions?

Again this is all that is required till it clicks.

If and when it does you must then honor your understanding and change your questions to now feed your new understanding of God. IE don't keep bring up the old crap when you know the answers. ask question based on what you understand.

Don't look now moron but you are doing all of this anyway.

If you don't die before I do you might find your self not burning in hell just for being who you are, but honest enough to accept what you have learned.
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#33
RE: What does religion have to offer?
Costs about as much as reciting a sutra or leaving flower petals at an altar. There’s something to be said for greater acts of devotion and how that plays into human notions of reciprocity.... but the lower floor is compelling for the same reasons. We imagine that by doing alot we’ll receive a lot, and we like to hold out hope for getting our wishes fulfilled...essentially, for free.

I really can’t comprehend why you imagine that I’m a winnable soul, that hell would be the way to win me, or that this thread is the place for that even if the preceding two bits of fantasy weren’t as ridiculous as they are. I’ve told you countless times, it just doesn’t matter to me whether your god exists, and more specific to the thread....any benefits conferred by s religion exist regardless of whether or not that religions claims are true or false.

Meditation does what it does, even if it will never help a person reach nirvana. Hope is hope even if the wish is never fulfilled. A routine is still a routine even if it centers around singing the praises of pixies who paint morning dew on every flower.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#34
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 11:53 am)BryanS Wrote:
(July 18, 2019 at 11:48 am)Aegon Wrote: Yeah, as someone also raised Catholic, I think that's the point of Catholicism. But if there's anything I've learned since falling in love with a non-denominational Christian it's that Christianity doesn't have to be that way.

It doesn't have to be only because people choose to believe what they believe a la carte as Hitchens liked to describe it. A set of faith beliefs that is anything close to the Christianity of the Bible is a deplorable thing.

This seems contradictory to me. Even "a la carte" beliefs stem from Biblical teachings or philosophy. Obviously they're all going to be close to the Christianity of the Bible.
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#35
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 1:31 pm)Aegon Wrote:
(July 18, 2019 at 11:53 am)BryanS Wrote: It doesn't have to be only because people choose to believe what they believe a la carte as Hitchens liked to describe it. A set of faith beliefs that is anything close to the Christianity of the Bible is a deplorable thing.

This seems contradictory to me. Even "a la carte" beliefs stem from Biblical teachings or philosophy. Obviously they're all going to be close to the Christianity of the Bible.

The point about a la carte Christianity is that it is simply the individual's own morality substituted for Biblical morality. The further from "fundamentalist" a Christian faith is, the more one has to question why they bothered with the faith claim to begin with when in reality they are using their own morality (which is to be applauded) over the immoral preachings of the Bible. Theists like to say that any good moral beliefs have a basis in their faith, as if it impossible to be good for goodness sake.
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#36
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 16, 2019 at 5:17 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: When someone asks "What church do you attend?" it's uncomfortable in a lot of places not to have an answer.

I was never asked that in all my 38 years of living. But then, I am not in the US. That might explain something. In my village, everyone knows me as atheist, never bothered me a bit as people that go to church just go there and don't bother those that do not go to church with questions,

It's a cultural thing here to respect beliefs and disbeliefs alike and I am fine with that. The JW's and the rare mormon are nothing but a nuissance as most people just hear them out from politeness. I miss my old dog, He was quite effective.
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#37
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 3:27 pm)LastPoet Wrote:
(July 16, 2019 at 5:17 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: When someone asks "What church do you attend?" it's uncomfortable in a lot of places not to have an answer.

I was never asked that in all my 38 years of living. But then, I am not in the US. That might explain something. In my village, everyone knows me as atheist, never bothered me a bit as people that go to church just go there and don't bother those that do not go to church with questions,

It's a cultural thing here to respect beliefs and disbeliefs alike and I am fine with that. The JW's and the rare mormon are nothing but a nuissance as most people just hear them out from politeness. I miss my old dog, He was quite effective.

It is a US thing I am sure.  More specifically a southern US thing.  When my son was young and playing sports I was often asked.  Since I was not from the area and my lineage unknown to people it was often the first thing asked after I was introduced to someone new.  Who is your church family?  What church do you attend?  It happened so often that I expected it.  Sometimes it was second if they wanted to know which ball player was my son.  The conversation (or interrogation, as it were) often included an invitation to attend their church.  So it was first fact-finding then recruiting.

My standard answer was that I was raised Catholic which tended to make them leave me alone because all of them 'knew' Catholics are really Satan worshippers.
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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#38
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 12:29 pm)Drich Wrote:
(July 18, 2019 at 11:47 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Bit like a malfunctioning snack machine.  Though, that probably is one of the more uniform benefits if religion.  Hope for wish fulfillment.

Pretty much any religion is going to lay out a series of steps to take toward a goal or end state, and the longer ( or even more impossible) that series of steps are, the better and longer motivated a person becomes while spooling out their days.

It’s nice to have something to work towards, regardless of whether or not it’s achievable.

ask seek knock are the only three steps

knock meaning continue the first two till God shows up again usally in the way of fruit then gifts
Asked, sought, knocked, watched tumbleweed, next.
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#39
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 2:42 pm)BryanS Wrote:
(July 18, 2019 at 1:31 pm)Aegon Wrote: This seems contradictory to me. Even "a la carte" beliefs stem from Biblical teachings or philosophy. Obviously they're all going to be close to the Christianity of the Bible.

The point about a la carte Christianity is that it is simply the individual's own morality substituted for Biblical morality. The further from "fundamentalist" a Christian faith is, the more one has to question why they bothered with the faith claim to begin with when in reality they are using their own morality (which is to be applauded) over the immoral preachings of the Bible. Theists like to say that any good moral beliefs have a basis in their faith, as if it impossible to be good for goodness sake.

Indeed. I saw no reason to embrace any faith-based belief system. Once I realized I was an atheist guided by reason, there was no need for a mental crutch.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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#40
RE: What does religion have to offer?
(July 18, 2019 at 2:42 pm)BryanS Wrote:
(July 18, 2019 at 1:31 pm)Aegon Wrote: This seems contradictory to me. Even "a la carte" beliefs stem from Biblical teachings or philosophy. Obviously they're all going to be close to the Christianity of the Bible.

The point about a la carte Christianity is that it is simply the individual's own morality substituted for Biblical morality. The further from "fundamentalist" a Christian faith is, the more one has to question why they bothered with the faith claim to begin with when in reality they are using their own morality (which is to be applauded) over the immoral preachings of the Bible. Theists like to say that any good moral beliefs have a basis in their faith, as if it impossible to be good for goodness sake.

What about a situation where one has a blend of their own morals from experience and the Bible, and is aware that they are doing that? What about those who recognize it is possible to be good for goodness sake while simultaneously saying that it has a basis in their faith? I don't know, it feels like you're oversimplifying both the Bible and morality.
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