God, Energy and Matter

[Deesse23]

I myself have a hard time viewing something in nature as having infinite existence. It doesn't seem like a natural characteristic

.
Why?

[downbeatplumb]

I'm more of a philosopher than a scientist, but I'm taking what I understand from science and I'm philosophizing.  If energy and matter cannot be  created or destroyed, that means that they share an intrinsic quality with God.  They have always existed with no beginning, and they will continue to exist into infinity.  Those are qualities are also given to God.  Could this match up in any way with a pantheistic understanding of the universe?  If I use science as a basis for my understanding, there couldn't have been an occasion when nothing existed, so energy and matter could not have been created.

Matter is energy.

[Rahn127]

Lek, I have an imaginary friend that seems to share many characteristics and attributes with human beings.

One thing you must understand is that the attributes of the god you're talking about weren't measured or discovered in some ritual. They were added to the definition of a god. People invented those attributes.

[Lek]

Lek, I have an imaginary friend that seems to share many characteristics and attributes with human beings.

One thing you must understand is that the attributes of the god you're talking about weren't measured or discovered in some ritual. They were added to the definition of a god. People invented those attributes.

Yeah.  I know.  You don't believe in divine revelation, personal experience and testimony of others to justify a belief.  As for myself, I just can't stop at the boundaries of natural sciences.  It's like the existence and qualities of energy.  When they state the qualities as existing in a "closed system" they're exhibiting their belief in the possibility of another system with different laws. If things exist that don't follow natural laws, you must have different methods of discovering them.  If someone says "I had a an experience with God", you will dismiss it offhand because you don't believe in mystical experiences.  You're trapped within those boundaries.   Maybe we're wasting our time in this area of the forum because we're always talking apples and oranges.

[Deesse23]

If someone says "I had a an experience with God", you will dismiss it offhand because you don't believe in mystical experiences. 

I believe you had an experience. Now convince me to attribute it to your god and not to some other god.

[Anomalocaris]

Lek, I have an imaginary friend that seems to share many characteristics and attributes with human beings.

One thing you must understand is that the attributes of the god you're talking about weren't measured or discovered in some ritual. They were added to the definition of a god. People invented those attributes.

Yeah.  I know.  You don't believe in divine revelation, personal experience and testimony of others to justify a belief.  As for myself, I just can't stop at the boundaries of natural sciences.  It's like the existence and qualities of energy.  When they state the qualities as existing in a "closed system" they're exhibiting their belief in the possibility of another system with different laws. If things exist that don't follow natural laws, you must have different methods of discovering them.  If someone says "I had a an experience with God", you will dismiss it offhand because you don't believe in mystical experiences.  You're trapped within those boundaries.   Maybe we're wasting our time in this area of the forum because we're always talking apples and oranges.

We are trapped in the boundaries defined by fact finding through methods that can be demonstrated to work.  Poor us. 

You have the joy of believing any bullshit that passes your negligible scrutiny.  What joyous world you must reside in.

[onlinebiker]

If someone says "I had a an experience with God", you will dismiss it offhand because you don't believe in mystical experiences. 

I believe you had an experience. Now convince me to attribute it to your god and not to some other god.

Or just a case of low blood sugar.

[Lek]

I believe you had an experience. Now convince me to attribute it to your god and not to some other god.

Or just a case of low blood sugar.

On second thought, I changed my mind. It must have been low blood sugar.

[Rahn127]

Lek, I have an imaginary friend that seems to share many characteristics and attributes with human beings.

One thing you must understand is that the attributes of the god you're talking about weren't measured or discovered in some ritual. They were added to the definition of a god. People invented those attributes.

Yeah.  I know.  You don't believe in divine revelation, personal experience and testimony of others to justify a belief.  As for myself, I just can't stop at the boundaries of natural sciences.  It's like the existence and qualities of energy.  When they state the qualities as existing in a "closed system" they're exhibiting their belief in the possibility of another system with different laws. If things exist that don't follow natural laws, you must have different methods of discovering them.  If someone says "I had a an experience with God", you will dismiss it offhand because you don't believe in mystical experiences.  You're trapped within those boundaries.   Maybe we're wasting our time in this area of the forum because we're always talking apples and oranges.

The only thing I can think of that isn't limited by nature is our imagination.

I can imagine a heavenly place with waterfalls and wild flowers and skies the color of sunsets.

The natural world is complex. Imagination is free and simple. In my imagination I can break all the laws of physics. I can create worlds that float in a tea cup and have the tea cup sitting on a blue quark.

You don't have to stop at the boundaries of science, but to go further you will have to turn to your imagination.

And that's where your god comes in. You imagine a god making you feel a certain way. You imagine that it does all kinds of things. You imagine it has a plan and you imagine that it exists.

But it only exists within your imagination.

[Lek]

I get it. You think it's imagination. We don't.