God, Energy and Matter

[polymath257]

That's because NOBODY knows for sure.


I don't even know what it would mean for something to exist beyond our physical universe (or multiverse)/


Why would you expect there to be some 'transcendent meaning'? For that matter, why would you expect that humans are anything other than a fluke in this huge universe? The only reason I can see is a form of ego: you don't like the idea that your life isn't really important in the grand scheme of things.

But the point is that a candle flame can give light and have meaning for a while, even if it eventually burns out. Life is more like that, in my opinion.


It's usually a pretty bad idea to step off a cliff. Just saying.

One aspect is that 'non-existence' isn't the side that needs to be proved: 'existence' is. The burden of proof is on the one making the positive existence claim.

We both agree about the things we don't know. And yes, I  like to believe that everything has transcendent meaning and I  believe it does. Mankind has recognized this from the beginning.  It's what makes sense.

Well, people thought we were the center of the universe for a LONG time. If you read, for example, Archimedes, you will find that the thinking was the whole universe was small enough to fall within what we now would have be the orbit of Saturn.

Under such conditions, maybe, having 'transcendent meaning' might make some sense.

But today, we know the Earth is one small planet orbiting a rather dull star in one of billions of galaxies. Thinking there is some transcendent meaning that includes us seems rather egotistical to me.

[Lek]

We both agree about the things we don't know. And yes, I  like to believe that everything has transcendent meaning and I  believe it does. Mankind has recognized this from the beginning.  It's what makes sense.

Well, people thought we were the center of the universe for a LONG time. If you read, for example, Archimedes, you will find that the thinking was the whole universe was small enough to fall within what we now would have be the orbit of Saturn.

Under such conditions, maybe, having 'transcendent meaning' might make some sense.

But today, we know the Earth is one small planet orbiting a rather dull star in one of billions of galaxies. Thinking there is some transcendent meaning that includes us seems rather egotistical to me.

Believing that we have an existence beyond the physical universe and being subject to a transcendent God is not egotistical.  The universe is all a manifestation of God.  There is no part of the universe that is more important than another.

[Anomalocaris]

Well, people thought we were the center of the universe for a LONG time. If you read, for example, Archimedes, you will find that the thinking was the whole universe was small enough to fall within what we now would have be the orbit of Saturn.

Under such conditions, maybe, having 'transcendent meaning' might make some sense.

But today, we know the Earth is one small planet orbiting a rather dull star in one of billions of galaxies. Thinking there is some transcendent meaning that includes us seems rather egotistical to me.

Believing that we have an existence beyond the physical universe and being subject to a transcendent God is not egotistical.  The universe is all a manifestation of God.  There is no part of the universe that is more important than another.

Oh, please.

The universe is a manifestation of nothing.  The only reason why you think it is and there is something beyond is because YOU want to have something to look forward to and like to think YOU mean something to somebody important. 

What a egocentric ignoramus moron.

---

Who told you reality has to make your kind of sense?  Who do you think you are?

I just think I'm a person - no more special than anyone else.  Who do you think you are?

Just How special do you think anyone else is?

Let me tell you, many of them are far more special than you, and yet not one of them, not a single one, ever, not your Jesus if he ever existed, not even people whom humanity can be most proud of, is special enough such that the reality would make even the absolutely the least possible accommodation whatsoever for their particular favorite kind of sense.

[polymath257]

Believing that we have an existence beyond the physical universe and being subject to a transcendent God is not egotistical. 

I disagre*only* reason people belive that it to soothe their egos and think that they are an important aspect of the universe.

The universe is all a manifestation of God.  There is no part of the universe that is more important than another.

The universe just is. It isn't a manifestation of anything. It simply is what it is.

But again, you are looking for some transcendent meaning. So here's a question: why is being a creation of some deity meaningful to you? Why is that deity having a plan for you meaningful to you? Why are those things that convey a sense of personal worth to you?

[Lek]

Let me tell you, many of them are far more special than you, and yet not one of them, not a single one, ever, not your Jesus if he ever existed, not even people whom humanity can be most proud of, is special enough such that the reality would make even the absolutely the least possible accommodation whatsoever for their particular favorite kind of sense.

Wow! You have some low self-esteem.

[polymath257]

Let me tell you, many of them are far more special than you, and yet not one of them, not a single one, ever, not your Jesus if he ever existed, not even people whom humanity can be most proud of, is special enough such that the reality would make even the absolutely the least possible accommodation whatsoever for their particular favorite kind of sense.

Wow!  You have some low self-esteem.

Why do you see that statement as 'low self-esteem' as opposed to simply being realistic about our place in the universe? We could easily die, as a species, if there was a hypernova in our galaxy. And the universe would continue on as it did with almost no difference.

Our concerns, our problems, our hopes, our fears, our pains, etc, are all on one tiny planet orbiting a pretty small star in one of billions of galaxies. To think even our complete annihilation would have any cosmic significance is a the height of ego.

[Anomalocaris]

Let me tell you, many of them are far more special than you, and yet not one of them, not a single one, ever, not your Jesus if he ever existed, not even people whom humanity can be most proud of, is special enough such that the reality would make even the absolutely the least possible accommodation whatsoever for their particular favorite kind of sense.

Wow!  You have some low self-esteem.

How do I have low self esteem?   I think I am way better than even your Jesus.

[Lek]

But again, you are looking for some transcendent meaning. So here's a question: why is being a creation of some deity meaningful to you? Why is that deity having a plan for you meaningful to you? Why are those things that convey a sense of personal worth to you?

These things are meaningful to me because we as humans always have a purpose for the things we do. We don't just do things "because". We don't "just go" to work every day. We go because we need to make money to survive and acquire things and so on. Everything I do has a purpose. The idea of a purposeless universe doesn't jibe with my mentality. Everything I perceive on this earth has a purpose. In the same way, I look for the purpose of the existence of the universe.

As far as God having a plan for me, I just think his plan for me is to return to him. It's important to me because my ultimate desire is to reunite with the one from whom I originated,.

[Nay_Sayer]

But again, you are looking for some transcendent meaning. So here's a question: why is being a creation of some deity meaningful to you? Why is that deity having a plan for you meaningful to you? Why are those things that convey a sense of personal worth to you?

These things are meaningful to me because we as humans always have a purpose for the things we do.  We don't just do things "because".  We don't "just go" to work every day.  We go because we need to make money to survive and acquire things and so on.  Everything I do has a purpose. The idea of a purposeless universe doesn't jibe with my mentality.  Everything I perceive on this earth has a purpose.  In the same way, I look for the purpose of the existence of the universe.  

As far as God having a plan for me, I just think his plan for me is to return to him.  It's important to me because my ultimate desire is to reunite with the one from whom I originated,.

It doesn't take much to visit ones mother for a spell. If she's still alive and you're on speaking terms, give her a call.

RAmen

[Rahn127]

As far as God having a plan for me, I just think his plan for me is to return to him. It's important to me because my ultimate desire is to reunite with the one from whom I originated,.

So you don't feel that you are reunited right now ?
What purpose would reuniting fulfill ?

Do you think your god needs something from you ?
Aren't you already connected ?
Aren't you already united ?

What do you think would change after you're dead ?
Do you think you would finally experience a TRUE connection to your god ?

Because the connection you have right now is really just in your own head. Your pretty sure that after you die, you'll be able to actually see god, actually hear his voice, instead of imagining him talking to you in your own head.

And what purpose will that serve ? You know, to actually see and hear god. What's the purpose of that ?