[Serious] Time to embrace Islam!

[R00tKiT]

But I thought the koran was supposed to be perfect, like the bible, without need of explanation?

Perfect is a very loose word, please be more specific. People misunderstand and argue about the simplest stuff, so there is always a need of explanation

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phyllofshyte:
I already explained in great details how Islamic theology is a bit more complicated and makes much more sense than the circularities in christian literature, which are there because of the impossible core beliefs it tries to defend like trinity. Core islamic beliefs do not entail any of that and so you're required to do much more homework before sitting comfortably in you chair and claim you got our religion all figured out by using such a disgustingly confident tone.

Again, this translates to: My make-believe, is superior to your make-believe.

Any wish granting magic sky daddy from any faith is absurdly fictitious.
The Christian one. The Jewish one. The Muslim one. All the gods from Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism. The gods of ancient Rome, and Greece. The old Norse gods. Or any of the other countless gods that have been consigned to oblivion through the course of human existence.
There is nothing exceptional or praiseworthy about your particular brand of sky wizard

Let's, for the sake of this argument, assume that there is some all-powerful creator to all that there is.  Whatever this thing is, it is outside the bounds of human comprehension. Humanity and their puny, insignificant mortal minds could not even begin to fathom the depths of existence. it is utterly beyond description. So please, stop trying.

You complain of this sick urge to label religious people, here's some breaking news for you skippy, NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO STAY!
Go peddle your worthless camel shit someplace else!

If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to stay in this thread either.

Also, truth is not supposed to be exceptional or glamorous, it can be in the boring old book you never cared to read.

[no one]

Your comprehension skills are unparalleled.

[WinterHold]

But I thought the koran was supposed to be perfect, like the bible, without need of explanation?

Perfect is a very loose word, please be more specific. People misunderstand and argue about the simplest stuff, so there is always a need of explanation

Not really..perfect is a very precise word.
See this verse:

Sura 39, The Quran:
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
( 23 )   Allah has sent down the best statement: a consistent Book wherein is reiteration. The skins shiver therefrom of those who fear their Lord; then their skins and their hearts relax at the remembrance of Allah. That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whom He wills. And one whom Allah leaves astray - for him there is no guide.

[Deesse23]

Is this the "fake news" approach? Weak sauce.

What's your point exactly?
It appears though that news is your only source of knowledge.

I prefer news to theologian "scholars".
The point is that the majority of muslims believe death is the correct punishment for apostasy, according to the Quran. A fact you conveniently deny.

Scholars know better than statistics and polls?

The hell they do.

You think scholars know better what the majority of muslims believe than statistics and polls? Oh well...

Where do scholars derive their authority from?

From dozens of years studying Islamic jurisprudence, Islamic law, tafsir', Hadith studies, Quranic studies, advanced arabic grammar, and more.

...and who gave them their certificate of being *correct*? Other scholars? And those got theirs from...?

Yet both of you claim to be muslims, yet both of you claim to have *the truth* and the other being wrong.

So, who is right? You? Atlass? Your scholars? Atlass´scholars? Why?
You better work this out, and then come back at me, you know where to find me.


In the meantime i will continue not to kill people simply for their beliefs, based on my own moral standards, and not because some *scholar* tells me a book says so, you are damn right.  

I don't want to disrespect Atlas but he's really really not well versed in his stuff,

Weird, he saz the same about you. So who is correct and why? A question both of you cant answer.

I already asked him a clear question he couldn't address concerning his repugnance of Hadiths.

I am not interested in what fantasies you prefer. Its like:  "Whats better: Start Trek or Star Wars?".

Until we work this out, just look up what our scholars say about "killing people".

Which scholars? Those who agree with you or those who agree with Atlass? Those who advocate killing apostates or those who dont?
No thanks, i prefer to think for myself.

[WinterHold]

Yet both of you claim to be muslims, yet both of you claim to have *the truth* and the other being wrong.

So, who is right? You? Atlass? Your scholars? Atlass´scholars? Why?
You better work this out, and then come back at me, you know where to find me.


In the meantime i will continue not to kill people simply for their beliefs, based on my own moral standards, and not because some *scholar* tells me a book says so, you are damn right.  

I don't want to disrespect Atlas but he's really really not well versed in his stuff, I already asked him a clear question he couldn't address concerning his repugnance of Hadiths.

Until we work this out, just look up what our scholars say about "killing people".

You can easily know who is telling the truth by checking the sources I bring, and the sources he brings.

My source is the source book of Islam -the Quran-.
His source is walls of text of sectarian scholars.

Choose.

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As for Klorophyll, do you know me? I think you know me, and have a big grudge towards me; and you display signs of OCD regarding me. What's wrong with you? discuss your point and leave me alone, creep

[The Grand Nudger]

You kinda have to offer two things to choose between, before you implore others to choose. So, what are we choosing between? How do you pray?

[LastPoet]

Yeah choose ONE book over milions. I will always go for the latter. I soppose I'll skip dan brown

[R00tKiT]

What's your point exactly?
It appears though that news is your only source of knowledge.

I prefer news to theologian "scholars".
The point is that the majority of muslims believe death is the correct punishment for apostasy, according to the Quran. A fact you conveniently deny.

First of all, your exact claim was : Islam instructs to kill atheists. Now you backpedal to apostasy, great honesty.

Second, punishment for apostasy is not in the Qur'an, but in a hadith. This already shows how much news taught you about the religion.

Apostasy isn't simply changing belief, it means leaving the Muslim community after joining it, with the political intent of spreading disorder, and even then it's for the court to decide whether the case amounts to actual apostasy or not, this concept is comparable to treason as defined in common law.

You think scholars know better what the majority of muslims believe than statistics and polls? Oh well...

Yeah, that what being a scholar means: being better than the majority.

...and who gave them their certificate of being *correct*? Other scholars? And those got theirs from...?

The same way you listen(ed) to your professors with PhDs while shutting up without asking them this retarded question.

Weird, he saz the same about you. So who is correct and why? A question both of you cant answer.

You can say who is right by him dodging my question.

Which scholars? Those who agree with you or those who agree with Atlass? Those who advocate killing apostates or those who dont?
No thanks, i prefer to think for myself.

Atlas doesn't believe in scholars, just like you. He thinks the Qur'an is self-explanatory, when the Qur'an itself refers to exterior sources of inquiry[Muhammad's sayings].


Type Ibn baz, Al-Albani, Ibn taymya, ibn uthaymin as quick examples of notable scholars, see their fatwas about treating non muslim people, and in particular the evidence from sacred texts of their assertions.

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I don't want to disrespect Atlas but he's really really not well versed in his stuff, I already asked him a clear question he couldn't address concerning his repugnance of Hadiths.

Until we work this out, just look up what our scholars say about "killing people".

You can easily know who is telling the truth by checking the sources I bring, and the sources he brings.

My source is the source book of Islam -the Quran-.
His source is walls of text of sectarian scholars.

Choose.

---

As for Klorophyll, do you know me? I think you know me, and have a big  grudge towards me; and you display signs of OCD regarding me. What's wrong with you? discuss your point and leave me alone, creep

I won't leave you spreading absolute nonsense in this kind of forums, people like you are the reason why we find it so difficult to articulate the claims of this religion well enough for them to even understand them.

If you want me to leave you, answer the eternal question : How do you pray according to the Qur'an alone ?

[WinterHold]

I prefer news to theologian "scholars".
The point is that the majority of muslims believe death is the correct punishment for apostasy, according to the Quran. A fact you conveniently deny.

First of all, your exact claim was : Islam instructs to kill atheists. Now you backpedal to apostasy, great honesty.

Second, punishment for apostasy is not in the Qur'an, but in a hadith. This already shows how much news taught you about the religion.

Apostasy isn't simply changing belief, it means leaving the Muslim community after joining it, with the political intent of spreading disorder, and even then it's for the court to decide whether the case amounts to actual apostasy or not, this concept is comparable to treason as defined in common law.

You think scholars know better what the majority of muslims believe than statistics and polls? Oh well...

Yeah, that what being a scholar means: being better than the majority.

...and who gave them their certificate of being *correct*? Other scholars? And those got theirs from...?

The same way you listen(ed) to your professors with PhDs while shutting up without asking them this retarded question.

Weird, he saz the same about you. So who is correct and why? A question both of you cant answer.

You can say who is right by him dodging my question.

Which scholars? Those who agree with you or those who agree with Atlass? Those who advocate killing apostates or those who dont?
No thanks, i prefer to think for myself.

Atlas doesn't believe in scholars, just like you. He thinks the Qur'an is self-explanatory, when the Qur'an itself refers to exterior sources of inquiry[Muhammad's sayings].


Type Ibn baz, Al-Albani, Ibn taymya, ibn uthaymin as quick examples of notable scholars, see their fatwas about treating non muslim people, and in particular the evidence from sacred texts of their assertions.

---

You can easily know who is telling the truth by checking the sources I bring, and the sources he brings.

My source is the source book of Islam -the Quran-.
His source is walls of text of sectarian scholars.

Choose.

---

As for Klorophyll, do you know me? I think you know me, and have a big  grudge towards me; and you display signs of OCD regarding me. What's wrong with you? discuss your point and leave me alone, creep

I won't leave you spreading absolute nonsense in this kind of forums, people like you are the reason why we find it so difficult to articulate the claims of this religion well enough for them to even understand them.

If you want me to leave you, answer the eternal question : How do you pray according to the Qur'an alone ?

Relax.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60123.html

And say hi to Shiite Muslims fighting Sunni Muslims for centuries over prayer.

[LadyForCamus]

You’re conflating justified, reasonable belief with absolute certainty. I never said anything about being absolutely certain.

I guess I haven’t considered reasonable belief as a category apart from certainty.  I think the point is that belief is chosen and not necessarily based on complete evidence.

I would argue the opposite is true. Belief is (or should be) borne of one’s confidence level in the truth of a proposition. If there is substantial evidence in support of a particular truth claim, then my confidence level in that truth claim will be high, and belief is generated. I cannot choose to believe in god any more than you can choose to believe in Santa Clause.