Another gun discussion part deux.

[Brian37]

FYI, it isn't about simply gun laws, it is about volume made by the gun corporations, and volume sold.

why? if the guns are regulated you can only shoot one at a time.. not to mention with a variety of guns come the problem of keeping ammo for each one. tried to buy ammo in the last year? if you can afford it you are restricted to a single box purchase in most places. some calibers they stopped production of all together to try and meet the need for the more popular rounds. Example you can't find .38 special or 357 or 357 mag.. because the material that goes into one of those = 2 9mm luger rounds. so right now if you dont have a need for bird shot shot gun shells or .22 long rifle you are sol..

I have no felonies myself. If I wanted to go out right now, and buy a firearm tomorrow, I could.

not if i suspect you to be a pot user.. or if you were ever arrested for any sort of domestic issue, or if i suspected you were apart of a gang or even something as mundane as buying for someone who could not be here. plus a few other gotchas that could possible apply to you. guns sales are largely up to the store owner, and you have those people in congress who want to blame everyone but the shooter for their crimes to thank for that. which is why i have like 6 camera going into my gun shop to show every possible angel of the customer, so as to have proof of nervous or twitchy behavior, or again if you are dressed like a gang member. even if you are apart of a middle age mundane yuppie motorcycle club/cosplayers. I can sell to you because you are wearing 'colors.'

Now, everyone who knows me here ask them if I should simply have one because I have no record.

no one should have one unless the are one comfortable with a gun and or can take responsibility owning a gun./proper storage.

NOBODY sane is arguing banning all firearms.

clinton promised to follow the australian model. which started out with assault rifles, then hi cap gun/mags then high power hunting rifles the shot guns and all hand guns. now they are gun free inside of 20 years and one school shooting.

The sane are simply saying our laws DON'T WORK.

idk why not try and enforce them.

If they did, we would not be #1 in firearm violence among first world western nations.

fake news bruh, afghanistan/[Pakistan have us beat. they also still have mass bombings as well.  to be first worlds biggest problem, means nothing as no other country deals with the things we do. the fact that many people who live here come from less developed countries bring their cultures of resolution by violence with them. and the few countries in the west who open their borders to middle eastern refugees are now paying a steep price in crime and violence.. and that is just an example of two races/cultures clashing. all races all cultures are represented here.

One can take their kids out for candy and soda and feed them an unlimited amount too. But pretty sure it is going to be a cluster fuck at night trying to get them to sleep.

true. but if you teach your children to make good choices the will not want those things to that level of excess. the key here is education and responsibility. this is something we either are given as children by our parents or we do not have. you and well meaning people like yourself think you can regulated these "common sense" practices into law. the problem is when people or cultures teach these laws do not apply when in conflict with the 'side hustle that puts food on the table' then there is nothing you can regulate or restrict. the bad guys will have guns long long after the last good guy gives his up. the problem many of you do not want to admit is the culture or sub culture that permits or justifies illegal behavior to begin with. the problem are the 'side hustles.' and the idea that in order to survive one is needed. you can't out pace people who live outside of society and the laws society places on the law abiding.

Holy shit dude, this "teach your children right from wrong" ISN'T THE FUCKING ISSUE. This is an oversimplification.

If it were as simple as telling a kid, "Don't smoke" the tobacco industry would go out of business. 

It isn't about banning every single firearm. It is about the industry CEOs selling fear to keep a flooded market for PROFIT!

You certainly are not going to stop smoking, anymore than banning all firearms. But it is bat shit insane to simply hand either out like candy. 

Gun ownership is not the fucking issue. It is the ATTITUDE of blindly defending the industry. 

Car companies used the same bullshit argument in the 60s and 70s when Nadar pointed out the problems their products were causing. 

NOBODY WANT TO BAN ALL FIREARMS....... But just like cars, you cant sell them to 10 year olds. You don't sell firearms to the mentally ill. You don't sell firearms to domestic abusers. You don't sell firearms to kids. You don't sell firearms to addicts. 

"No record at time of purchase" is BULLSHIT. People can have no criminal record when they buy, and then go on to do things like commit suicide, or kill their date or spouse, or get lax and let their kid get a hold of it. THOSE are the majority of gun injuries and deaths. 

IT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT to claim all gun violence is done by stranger on stranger. 

A responsible gun owner SHOULD want better vetting at time of purchase.

[Drich]

Drich, will you be selling components for ghost guns like many other retailers?

What are the laws limiting access to or for the registration of ghost guns?

(just poking the bear, I'm a gun owner that's all for stricter regulations)

ghost guns like 80% milled receivers? do you have any idea how much work goes into one of those to make it operational? how tight the tolerances have to be in order for them to work reliably? 90% of them fail habitually/jam up or nothing at all happens when you pull the trigger. most of those are sold with the idea with some patience and a drill and dremel you can have a ar receiver with a few well placed holes. in truth you need a 5 axis cnc machine/auto mill to make those work. and if you have that you do not need a 80% receiver.. plus if you use one it has to be registered.
If you have a cnc it will be easier to start from a solid block of material because you will have to take hours setting up and plotting out the 80% receiver in the machine so it is properly oriented/the computer is aligned to know where to cut out what..  where as the machine (if you have the program) can take a block of billet aluminum and cut your own receiver in 1/2 the time. but then are subject to federal regulations and have to file as a manufacturer.. which again defeats the purpose of a 80% lower.  also if you build one, you can't legally transfer it or sell it to any one. the only option is to turn it is to the police or someone like me to be destroyed if you don't use it as a wall hanger.

Ghost guns are a joke. because there maybe only a few hundred people who have the skills and hand tools at home (have to be built at home) can build them out legally. mean hand forge/hume them out with hand tools. remember you can't buy or put them on any specialized mill or other machining equipment. otherwise it is considered to be manufactured which means it is subject to regulation/serial number by a licensed fire arm manufacturer. which again defeats the purpose. this is just a way for 1/2 asses gun builders to make money on a loop hole they found.. if you want to be scared of something.. the 3d printed receiver is a far greater threat as anyone can just print out a ghost gun and all the special cuts and machine work is already done.

if someone wants a box of 80% lowers they don't need me to get them as they are considered aluminum blocks. they can buy from the manufacturer. I would be an unnecessary middle man. 

that said i do plan on buying some lowers and kit them out with tactical triggers and some tricked out uppers. but the will be sold as regular firearms. but have to do more research and find a suppliers to make it all work.

right now the only think im doing is setting up the show room and trying to make contacts.. might be going to 'glock school' to become an authorized dealer. we will see what they say.

[Brian37]

Dam you don't get it Drich.

The world doesn't need  to make more guns. If we suddenly stopped making them, we'd still have plenty for centuries. 

I am not even saying we can stop makers from making new guns. But we damned sure need the makers to take responsibility for what they make, and where their products end up.

What we have now is an attitude of "more is better" and " if you question what we sell, or how much we sell, you are evil."

This is fucking nonsense if one is going to rightfully argue, "Just keep them out of the wrong hands", which I agree we should keep them out of the wrong hands, then the key is VETTING at time of purchase. And right now, we have crappy vetting.

[brewer]

Drich, will you be selling components for ghost guns like many other retailers?

What are the laws limiting access to or for the registration of ghost guns?

(just poking the bear, I'm a gun owner that's all for stricter regulations)

ghost guns like 80% milled receivers? do you have any idea how much work goes into one of those to make it operational? how tight the tolerances have to be in order for them to work reliably? 90% of them fail habitually/jam up or nothing at all happens when you pull the trigger. most of those are sold with the idea with some patience and a drill and dremel you can have a ar receiver with a few well placed holes. in truth you need a 5 axis cnc machine/auto mill to make those work. and if you have that you do not need a 80% receiver.. plus if you use one it has to be registered.
If you have a cnc it will be easier to start from a solid block of material because you will have to take hours setting up and plotting out the 80% receiver in the machine so it is properly oriented/the computer is aligned to know where to cut out what..  where as the machine (if you have the program) can take a block of billet aluminum and cut your own receiver in 1/2 the time. but then are subject to federal regulations and have to file as a manufacturer.. which again defeats the purpose of a 80% lower.  also if you build one, you can't legally transfer it or sell it to any one. the only option is to turn it is to the police or someone like me to be destroyed if you don't use it as a wall hanger.

Ghost guns are a joke. because there maybe only a few hundred people who have the skills and hand tools at home (have to be built at home) can build them out legally. mean hand forge/hume them out with hand tools. remember you can't buy or put them on any specialized mill or other machining equipment. otherwise it is considered to be manufactured which means it is subject to regulation/serial number by a licensed fire arm manufacturer. which again defeats the purpose. this is just a way for 1/2 asses gun builders to make money on a loop hole they found.. if you want to be scared of something.. the 3d printed receiver is a far greater threat as anyone can just print out a ghost gun and all the special cuts and machine work is already done.

if someone wants a box of 80% lowers they don't need me to get them as they are considered aluminum blocks. they can buy from the manufacturer. I would be an unnecessary middle man. 

that said i do plan on buying some lowers and kit them out with tactical triggers and some tricked out uppers. but the will be sold as regular firearms. but have to do more research and find a suppliers to make it all work.

right now the only think im doing is setting up the show room and trying to make contacts.. might be going to 'glock school' to become an authorized dealer. we will see what they say.

I notice that you didn't address the law. 

As far as making/assembling, my dealer makes them (I have not bought one) and says it's easy.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homemade_f...Production

[Drich]

the 03 c&R I did have and that allows for purchases on line only. still cant sell or transfer on line.. the 06 is for ammo manufacturing. can have more than 50lbs of loose powder on hand. any more would have to have the explosive devise/ordnance licenses. the 07 allows me to receive from ffl and non ffl sources, and i can sell and ship but not to any of you. it would have to be another ffl. that what i mean i cant sell to any of you... I can send a fire arm to any of you directly. you could technicall buy from me and i could send it to your local gun shop but by the time he gets done with his jealous fee for not going to him in the first place/paper work transfer, you could probably buy the gun twice. the only reason to do a transfer like that is if someone dies, you buy a gun like on a on line auction and get it stupid cheap or you just gotta have the newest or a special order custom competition gun, and your guy only sells muskets. most gun store owners are like elite comic book store owners who graduate to guns. they dont tend to like business going other places.

Sounds dubious.


To my knowledge the ONLY online sales are to C+R license holders (and of course only C+R eligible firearms) AND all FFL holders can advertise and sell online - but can only ship to another FFL holder.


Correct me if I am wrong.

CMP can ship a non C&R straight to your home. You'll have some hoops to jump through first, and they are going to do a background check.

Geez Dirch, where do you live that the transfer fees are unaffordable? You can get a transfer around here for as little as $10. Most charge $20-25, and even the big shops that don't like to do transfers are only charging $30-35. Hell I can get a class 3 transfer for $50.

the civilian marksman ship program is the government. the government can do what it wants. plus they would most likly shop a 1903 springfield a m1 garand or a 1911. which all fall under the curio relic. even if you don't have a 03 FFL they again can do what they want. 

We have a huge gun store where i live that put all the other little guys out of business. they charge 100 for a transfer including back ground check. from what i understand most of the larger stores if they will even do it charge at least 75.00 seeings how most mark ups of a new gun are under 100.00 i did not see a need to buy and ship something in. i'll be charging 25.00 flat fee. plus back ground check. there are a few who charge less, but then you have to listen to the guy whine about how you should have bought from him.. or how he has superior gun in stock or that you over paid and on and on..

[Brian37]

CMP can ship a non C&R straight to your home. You'll have some hoops to jump through first, and they are going to do a background check.

Geez Dirch, where do you live that the transfer fees are unaffordable? You can get a transfer around here for as little as $10. Most charge $20-25, and even the big shops that don't like to do transfers are only charging $30-35. Hell I can get a class 3 transfer for $50.

the civilian marksman ship program is the government. the government can do what it wants. plus they would most likly shop a 1903 springfield a m1 garand or a 1911. which all fall under the curio relic. even if you don't have a 03 FFL they again can do what they want. 

We have a huge gun store where i live that put all the other little guys out of business. they charge 100 for a transfer including back ground check. from what i understand most of the larger stores if they will even do it charge at least 75.00 seeings how most mark ups of a new gun are under 100.00 i did not see a need to buy and ship something in. i'll be charging 25.00 flat fee. plus back ground check. there are a few who charge less, but then you have to listen to the guy whine about how you should have bought from him.. or how he has superior gun in stock or that you over paid and on and on..

This is simply Dungeons and Dragons for gun worshipers.

None of what you are arguing addresses our flooded market and crappy vetting at time of sale.

[onlinebiker]

You need a 5 axis CNC to complete a reciever?



That's odd.

I did an AR10 blank last year on my MANUAL vertical mill - with only verniers. No DRO.

The rifle works fine.


....

More BS, eh?

[popeyespappy]

CMP can ship a non C&R straight to your home. You'll have some hoops to jump through first, and they are going to do a background check.

Geez Dirch, where do you live that the transfer fees are unaffordable? You can get a transfer around here for as little as $10. Most charge $20-25, and even the big shops that don't like to do transfers are only charging $30-35. Hell I can get a class 3 transfer for $50.

the civilian marksman ship program is the government. the government can do what it wants. plus they would most likly shop a 1903 springfield a m1 garand or a 1911. which all fall under the curio relic. even if you don't have a 03 FFL they again can do what they want. 

We have a huge gun store where i live that put all the other little guys out of business. they charge 100 for a transfer including back ground check. from what i understand most of the larger stores if they will even do it charge at least 75.00 seeings how most mark ups of a new gun are under 100.00 i did not see a need to buy and ship something in. i'll be charging 25.00 flat fee. plus back ground check. there are a few who charge less, but then you have to listen to the guy whine about how you should have bought from him.. or how he has superior gun in stock or that you over paid and on and on..

The CMP is not the government. It hasn't been since 1996. It is administered by the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety which is a 501 c(3) non profit. They do get to play by a special set of rules though that allows them to ship firearms directly to non FFL holders which makes them the exception to the rule.

What kind of ammo are you planning on manufacturing, by manufacturing I assume you mean assembling, and what kind of equipment are you using? Plus, where are getting your components?

---

You need a 5 axis CNC to complete a reciever?



That's odd.

I did an AR10 blank last year on my MANUAL vertical mill - with only verniers. No DRO.

The rifle works fine.


....

More BS, eh?

Most of the people I know just use a router and jig. I've seen a few finished with a drill press. They weren't pretty, but they worked.

[onlinebiker]

the civilian marksman ship program is the government. the government can do what it wants. plus they would most likly shop a 1903 springfield a m1 garand or a 1911. which all fall under the curio relic. even if you don't have a 03 FFL they again can do what they want. 

We have a huge gun store where i live that put all the other little guys out of business. they charge 100 for a transfer including back ground check. from what i understand most of the larger stores if they will even do it charge at least 75.00 seeings how most mark ups of a new gun are under 100.00 i did not see a need to buy and ship something in. i'll be charging 25.00 flat fee. plus back ground check. there are a few who charge less, but then you have to listen to the guy whine about how you should have bought from him.. or how he has superior gun in stock or that you over paid and on and on..

The CMP is not the government. It hasn't been since 1996. It is administered by the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety which is a 501 c(3) non profit. They do get to play by a special set of rules though that allows them to ship firearms directly to non FFL holders which makes them the exception to the rule.

What kind of ammo are you planning on manufacturing, by manufacturing I assume you mean assembling, and what kind of equipment are you using? Plus, where are getting your components?

---

You need a 5 axis CNC to complete a reciever?



That's odd.

I did an AR10 blank last year on my MANUAL vertical mill - with only verniers. No DRO.

The rifle works fine.


....

More BS, eh?

Most of the people I know just use a router and jig. I've seen a few finished with a drill press. They weren't pretty, but they worked.

The ones I have done look like production. (Except for the lack of Parkerizing internally.)

[popeyespappy]

The CMP is not the government. It hasn't been since 1996. It is administered by the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety which is a 501 c(3) non profit. They do get to play by a special set of rules though that allows them to ship firearms directly to non FFL holders which makes them the exception to the rule.

What kind of ammo are you planning on manufacturing, by manufacturing I assume you mean assembling, and what kind of equipment are you using? Plus, where are getting your components?

---

Most of the people I know just use a router and jig. I've seen a few finished with a drill press. They weren't pretty, but they worked.

The ones I have done look like production. (Except for the lack of Parkerizing internally.)

I've seen nicely finished 80% guns and poorly finished 80% guns. The poorly finished ones weren't petty but they functioned just fine. Of course I probably didn't see the ones they fucked up.