Which theory is most true? What shortcomings (if any) do these theories have? Is someone who hasn't decided on one of these theories "years ago" missing something? Or is the correctness of each theory not so clear?
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Current time: December 1, 2024, 3:42 am
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Ignosticism, Theism, or Gnostic Atheism
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RE: Ignosticism, Theism, or Gnostic Atheism
January 23, 2022 at 10:27 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2022 at 10:28 pm by Disagreeable.)
First we have to define 'gods', 'God' and 'deity'.
Schopenhauer Wrote:The intellect has become free, and in this state it does not even know or understand any other interest than that of truth. Epicurus Wrote:The greatest reward of righteousness is peace of mind. Epicurus Wrote:Don't fear god,
No we don't. Not unless we are making truth-statements about things that do (or do not) exist. If I don't claim knowledge of something, I don't have to define it. That onus hangs on those who claim knowledge.
RE: Ignosticism, Theism, or Gnostic Atheism
January 23, 2022 at 10:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2022 at 10:42 pm by Disagreeable.)
(January 23, 2022 at 10:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: No we don't. Yes we do. Quote: Not unless we are making truth-statements about things that do (or do not) exist. All statements are truth statements about a thing or things' existence or existences. Quote: If I don't claim knowledge of something, I don't have to define it. We don't have to define it but it would lead to miscommunication if we did not. Quote:That onus hangs on those who claim knowledge. So, on nobody, then. Schopenhauer Wrote:The intellect has become free, and in this state it does not even know or understand any other interest than that of truth. Epicurus Wrote:The greatest reward of righteousness is peace of mind. Epicurus Wrote:Don't fear god, Quote:Yes we do.No, we don't Quote:All statements are truth statements about a thing or things' existence or existences.Nope Quote:We don't have to define it but it would lead to miscommunication if we did not.Not our problem Quote:So, on nobody, then.No it falls on Gnostics because they claim to know
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Ignosticism (per Wikipedia):
Quote:Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless because the word "God" has no coherent and unambiguous definition If ignosticism is accurately defined by the above, then my issue with it is that theists have been all too happy to provide definitions for God clear enough to have a debate about. Sure, after providing definitions, the concept of God may still appear to be very vague, but it is given properties and it is said to do and have done things, therefore one can then make an argument against God based on the properties and actions ascribed to it by the other side. And both theism and [gnostic] atheism have their issues, of course. There is a fourth position that I have been thinking of a lot lately and which I term "prototheism". A lot of the makings of a God are there, but God (in the full sense of the term typically conceptualized by classical theists) is not. Not to be confused with deism (which is still a belief in some personal God). Ultimately, it's all very relative. There are multiple various definitions for the term "God", and what may be "God" to some people is not much of "God" to others. But this means there is a problem here with the standard definitions of the word "atheism". For pantheists, for example, God is basically the universe itself and nothing more (that's my understanding at least). Atheists accept the existence of the universe, does this mean they are not atheists per pantheism? Or is it that pantheism is not really considered theism? Maybe atheism isn't just a lack of belief in God, but also a lack of conceptualizing anything that exists as God? (January 23, 2022 at 10:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: No we don't. Not unless we are making truth-statements about things that do (or do not) exist. If I don't claim knowledge of something, I don't have to define it. That onus hangs on those who claim knowledge. In a sense the theologians, a long time ago, did an end run around any attempt we might make at a definition. You've no doubt heard of apophatic or negative theology, which simply states that God is so far beyond human understanding that any definition we attempted would be overly limited. Undefinable by definition, so to speak. From Wikipedia: Quote:"negative theology is as old as philosophy itself;" elements of it can be found in Plato's unwritten doctrines, while it is also present in Neo-Platonic, Gnostic and early Christian writers. A tendency to apophatic thought can also be found in Philo of Alexandria.[3] RE: Ignosticism, Theism, or Gnostic Atheism
January 24, 2022 at 6:32 am
(This post was last modified: January 24, 2022 at 6:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Gnostic atheism, naturally. I don't see a problem with it, nor would I call it a theory. There are no gods, full stop.
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I'd go with ignosticism - the idea that the question 'Does God exist' is inherently meaningless and can never be made meaningful. It's like asking 'What colour is Tuesday?'
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Well Mondays are blue, so, Tuesdays are obviously fuchsia.
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