Russia and Ukraine

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Well, it's apparent that some people here think that if the US does something it is wrong and the results are our fault.

If the US does nothing, whatever goes wrong is our fault.

If another country does something, it's still the fault of the US.

Russia is riling shit up...it has to be the fault of the US, amiright?

The US has done plenty of wrong over the decades (who hasn’t?), but I remain unconvinced that a line can be drawn between US actions and a tyrannical despot invading his neighbour.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

Well, it's apparent that some people here think that if the US does something it is wrong and the results are our fault.

If the US does nothing, whatever goes wrong is our fault.

If another country does something, it's still the fault of the US.

Russia is riling shit up...it has to be the fault of the US, amiright?

The US has done plenty of wrong over the decades (who hasn’t?), but I remain unconvinced that a line can be drawn between US actions and a tyrannical despot invading his neighbour.

Boru

Funniest thing about this thread is me being called a Trumpian. I'm the unofficial hippie on this site.

Yeah, the US has done plenty wrong but being the scapegoat for all the ills of the world is just ignorance.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The US has done plenty of wrong over the decades (who hasn’t?), but I remain unconvinced that a line can be drawn between US actions and a tyrannical despot invading his neighbour.

Boru

Funniest thing about this thread is me being called a Trumpian.  I'm the unofficial hippie on this site.  

Yeah, the US has done plenty wrong but being the scapegoat for all the ills of the world is just ignorance.

Yeah, that’s kinda my point. I know it’s hard for people to grasp, but bad shit can happen that has nothing to do with the US.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

The hell you say!

You'd think that the bog standard anti american cultists would understand the idea that the us isn't the cause of everything - it's not like they credit the us when things go right, after all.

[Anomalocaris]

waaaaaa,  we don’t get any credit, waaaaaaaa

[no one]

Putin is just trying his best Jobs impersonation, he wants the Ukraine to be the I Kraine.

[Deesse23]

waaaaaa,  we don’t get any credit, waaaaaaaa

Is that all you have? Or do you have actual arguments as to why invading a sovereign state is a-ok, under some very specific conditions, or for very special people?

[The Grand Nudger]

...............? I think you might have blown a gasket on this one anom. Russia has invaded Ukraine. The problem here is not that americans are dumb or whiny - though we may very well be. It's that Russia has invaded Ukraine.

The problem for Russia, and for Putin, is that the invasion isn't exactly buttressing his or his nations legendary competence or ability. Moreover, it's created a situation where even if (and I think you and I probably agree that there's some inevitability here) Russia wins, it will be at great expense to ukrainian and russian people - as well as any other person who in whatever way is plugged into some russian (or ukranian) commodity. A hell of alot of people. I'd call that a compelling interest even if we're hip deep in the moral and geopolitical sewer.

[arewethereyet]

We have a couple people around here who have determined the hill they plan to die on. Stupid as those choices are...

[The Grand Nudger]

A good comment on Putin, too, really. He's determined to do this, but in doing so only strengthens the case for stronger nato partnerships and more nato countries. More disturbingly, it suggests a fairly cut and dry case for the dissolution of putins russia entirely, should europe desire any peace or economic stability.

Reality may be that it's not something that could be accomplished now, but now it's something people have good reason to work harder towards. Russia seeks to impose terms (at the least) on Ukraine today, but they may very well be the basis and framework for terms Russia is one day forced to accept.