British Non-Catholic Historian on Historical Longevity of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Nay_Sayer]

Another wall of text followed by Xavier cherry-picking replies to answer.

Reminder: Xavier is unhinged. Do not engage.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Nishant Xavier

 it was started by 1 Carpenter, Jesus Christ

According to scripture, Jesus wasn't a carpenter. He was a janitor. John 11:35 - 'Jesus swept.'

Follow me for more Biblical exegeses. 

Boru

[Simon Moon]

British Non-Catholic Historian Thomas Macaulay wrote about the Catholic Church: "There is not, and there never was on this earth, a work of human policy so well deserving of examination as the Roman Catholic Church. The history of that Church joins together the two great ages of human civilisation. No other institution is left standing which carries the mind back to the times when the smoke of sacrifice rose from the Pantheon, and when camelopards and tigers bounded in the Flavian amphitheatre. The proudest royal houses are but of yesterday, when compared with the line of the Supreme Pontiffs. That line we trace back in an unbroken series, from the Pope who crowned Napoleon in the nineteenth century to the Pope who crowned Pepin in the eighth; and far beyond the time of Pepin the august dynasty extends, till it is lost in the twilight of fable. The republic of Venice came next in antiquity. But the republic of Venice was modern when compared with the Papacy; and the republic of Venice is gone, and the Papacy remains. 

The Papacy remains, not in decay, not a mere antique, but full of life and youthful vigour. The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila. The number of her children is greater than in any former age. Her acquisitions in the New World have more than compensated for what she has lost in the Old. Her spiritual ascendency extends over the vast countries which lie between the plains of the Missouri and Cape Horn, countries which a century hence, may not improbably contain a population as large as that which now inhabits Europe. The members of her communion are certainly not fewer than a hundred and fifty millions; and it will be difficult to show that all other Christian sects united amount to a hundred and twenty millions.

 Nor do we see any sign which indicates that the term of her long dominion is approaching. She saw the commencement of all the governments and of all the ecclesiastical establishments that now exist in the world; and we feel no assurance that she is not destined to see the end of them all. She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain, before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished at Antioch, when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca. And she may still exist in undiminished vigour when some traveller from New Zealand shall, in the midst of a vast solitude, take his stand on a broken arch of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St. Paul's."

If the Catholic Church was allegedly not of divine origin and just, as this same historian, says, "a work of human policy (albeit, one well deserving of examination", isn't it rather surprising it even got off the ground to begin with, beginning with 1 Carpenter, and 12 Poor Disciples, and has endured 2000 years? This cannot be compared to other religions, for e.g. Hinduism, which was traditionally the religion of an entire nation; nor of Islam, since Mohammed had armed warriors following him right from the time of his own life. Meanwhile - and I heard recently on this forum that Christianity was allegedly started by "goat herders", presumably Shepherds; actually, it was started by 1 Carpenter, Jesus Christ, who would have worked at His earthly father's business, to provide for His Mother and Family, before starting His Ministry; as well as 12 poor disciples, most of whom were fisherman. So, what gives? How did Christianity endure? It would have been like 0.000001% of the population at that time. The Sanhedrin was much more powerful. And yet it was opposed to Christianity. And Pagan Rome was even more powerful. And yet it was even more opposed to Christianity, in the beginning, before Christianity triumphed there as well, then later in the rest of Europe, through St. Patrick, St. Augustine of Canterbury Macaualay mentions etc. So, again, what gives? How did Christianity even survive?

Thoughts?
Let's Debate.
Regards,
Xavier.

I did not read this entire thing, but should I assume it is one giant argumentum ad antiquitatem fallacy?


Sorry to inform you, but Hinduism has been around since 1500 BCE. So, it must be true because it's been around so long..., right?

[Anomalocaris]

He is invested in the Catholic Church, but has no investment whatsoever in the truth.   So truth to him is just a convenient but meaningless word he hopes to applied, with a minimum additional investment in time, to generate some minute fraudulent profit for the Catholic Church and by some extremely distant, tenuous and wishful extension give him some hope of getting some emotional dividend from his investment.

[Pat Mustard]

<snipping a whole ton of copy-pasta bullshit>

Why do you keep posting bullshit? You should realise by now we're not as stupid as you are.

[The Valkyrie]

RCC: spread by the sword and the gun. Swimming in the blood of millions.

Guilty of covering up widespread abuse, perpetrating, committing, and supporting genocide.

Guilty of looting treasures from all over the world.

Guilty of spreading inequality, and hate.

Crusades.

Inquisitions.

Not a force for good.

Needs to be taxed into oblivion.

[Bucky Ball]

I agree, it is pretty embarrassing isn't it.

It's really not that much of a "plus" when you consider what their (supposed) founder said :
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Hint : they're all dead. St. Paul also was an apocalyptic. He was surprised and had to apologize for those who died before the end came, "fallen asleep in the Lord" etc.

There are faiths that are far far older.

The church has changed radically over the centuries, from when Rome was not even recognized as first.
New dogmas, new creeds, new Trinity, new sacraments, new beliefs, etc. The fact that it has the same name does not make it the same church.

Does he talk about if the rampant pedophilia was true throughout the church's history ?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/f...uiry-finds

[Deesse23]

RCC: spread by the sword and the gun.  Swimming in the blood of millions.

Guilty of covering up widespread abuse, perpetrating, committing, and supporting genocide.

Guilty of looting treasures from all over the world.

Guilty of spreading inequality, and hate.

Crusades.

Inquisitions.

Not a force for good.

Needs to be taxed into oblivion.

.....But "militant atheists"

[Astreja]

He is invested in the Catholic Church, but has no investment whatsoever in the truth.

He also mentioned in passing that he's an investment banker.  I pity his clients...

[Paleophyte]

Thoughts?

You're history.

U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time (Gallup 2021)

"Among religious groups, the decline in membership is steeper among Catholics (down 18 points, from 76% to 58%) than Protestants (down nine points, from 73% to 64%). This mirrors the historical changes in church attendance Gallup has documented among Catholics, with sharp declines among Catholics but not among Protestants."