Do people just naturally want conflict

[Ahriman]

You can imagine yourself into different dimensions, but can't shake some indoctrination from your childhood which you no longer even agree with?

Fair enough.

Maybe I'm weak. But no, I can't shake it.

[Ahriman]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

Not if it's literally beaten into you and made your mind unwilling to consider alternatives.

[arewethereyet]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

When you are told something over and over again when you are young, especially by people who you should be able to trust, it can stick with you.  

To this day my mother's words ring in my head regarding certain things.

[Belacqua]

I think humans naturally gravitate toward increasing conflict and chaos, and might actually enjoy their lives more, the more chaotic things are in the world, e.g. The Russia/Ukraine War, (pointless) political divisions such as Biden vs. Trump, drama in the household (married couples, parents/kids, money issues, etc.).......it just seems like people actually want all this bullshit, maybe because their lives are intolerably boring without it?

Probably this works differently at different levels. 

Like Russia/Ukraine doesn't simply result from a love of conflict. Mostly it comes from simple greed -- people profit from war. So wars are incited because somebody wants the results of the conflict, not the conflict itself. In fact those who profit stand above any real fighting.

At a personal level, though, I think a lot of times people start conflicts that aren't necessary because they see a chance to win over someone else. They get pleasure from putting someone down. There is pleasure in making someone else feel bad, if this can be justified in one's mind. Some people look for chances to do this.

So at that level, people start conflicts that are completely unnecessary, because they want to feel above someone else.

[Angrboda]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

Weren't you the person who was arguing that Muslim children were unlikely to escape the propositions taught during their upbringing?

[The Magic Pudding.]

People don't need meaning, they need to be honest with themselves about what's good for the human race as a whole and not just what they selfishly desire as individuals.

Sounds like a meaning to me.

[Ahriman]

People don't need meaning, they need to be honest with themselves about what's good for the human race as a whole and not just what they selfishly desire as individuals.

Sounds like a meaning to me.

Well they don't need individualistic meaning.

[FrustratedFool]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

Not if it's literally beaten into you and made your mind unwilling to consider alternatives.

So do you no longer believe in freewill?

That aside, I can appreciate the difficulty in changing feelings about something.
But if you don't believe pleasure is irrelevant then all you have to do is type a post here saying, 'I think pleasure is relevant.' It's not about your feelings, it's about what you assent to.

If, of course, you do believe that pleasure is irrelevant, then that's a different issue. But then the issue isn't really one of you not being able to imagine an alternative because of your upbringing, the issue is that you hold to an opinion for whatever reason (regardless of its provenance) and we simply disagree.

[FrustratedFool]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

When you are told something over and over again when you are young, especially by people who you should be able to trust, it can stick with you.  

To this day my mother's words ring in my head regarding certain things.

It doesn't matter. You either agree with X or disagree. If you agree, it requires sufficient warrant to be reasonable. If you disagree, the same. If unsure, one simply says, 'I do not know'. Feelings arising from childhood beatings are irrelevant to this. You can have voices in your head from anywhere, but the response to a proposition is either: agree, disagree, unsure.

[FrustratedFool]

Sure, personality traits are different to assent to propositions.

As an adult one can dissent from the proposition that pleasure is irrelevant.

Weren't you the person who was arguing that Muslim children were unlikely to escape the propositions taught during their upbringing?

I don't recall, but highly likely.
Statistically, it is true that someone who is raised within a certain religion, like Islam, is unlikely to disagree with Islamic teaching. But in that case they actually agree with teaching X (whether through indoctrination or otherwise doesn't matter for this present discussion). Here we have a case of someone who disagrees with a proposition, but finds themselves unable to disagree for some reason (hence why in posts above I clarified a belief 'that you disagree with').

So I can hold to both and be consistent. And indeed I do, and am.